mame on propeller chip

ddann · 2010-05-18 05:16

Hi, i am completely new to this so please forgive me if im repeating something already discussed..

I was hoping to use this platform to make a mame machine out of. i found this blog http://learn1thing.blogspot.com/·and was hoping i could get pointed in the direction i need to go..

i wish to have it be able to output selectable arcade frquencies (as in 15k, 24k, and 31k ) but that can wait till im able to work out how to do what this guy Jeff at http://learn1thing.blogspot.com/· has done..

any help would be appreciated

thanks

Ale · 2010-05-18 08:58

Doing an arcade cabinet using the propeller does not equals having MAME running on the propeller. If you just have a look at what MAME is and what it requires then you will see that it does not fit the propeller, at all. BUT there are some ports, of some games running on the propeller (see for instance the hydra forum). While many things can be done with the propeller, the best shot is to have native code running on it. For instance the Double Dragon game from '87 needs 3 CPUs. Two Z80s at 6 and one at 4 Mhz. One of the propeller's cogs can emulate one Z80 CPU at around 2.5 MHz if I'm not mistaken. A far cry (considering all the other HW involved) from what would be needed. Simpler games ca be easily ported... but they are not emulated like in MAME. Still loads of fun [noparse]:)[/noparse]

A MAME cabinet can be done with almost any old PC lying around. If your goal is playing loads of already-emulated games... then the propeller is not the answer (yet).

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heater · 2010-05-18 09:07

Strangely enough on this forum we have PullMoll, a major contributor to the MAME project. Author of the MAME Z80 emulator and now creator of the qZ80 emulator on the Prop.

So MAME on the Prop is, in a way, a lot closer than you might think[noparse]:)[/noparse]

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nyje · 2010-05-18 09:11

Hi ddan, I think you may have grasped the wrong idea about Oldbitcollector's Propeller arcade machine.
It does not run mame, it runs games which are ported (i.e. re-written) for the propeller chip itself as far as I'm aware.

There are several gaming boards available powered by the propeller chip, for example The Hydra
or these (you would need both) El Juggador and The Propeller platform SD

Even the cheaper pre-built propeller boards available can run many of the games (with a little massaging).
You can even build one of your own with just basic soldering skills, I built one for about $20 USD of parts from Ebay and a prop chip (less than $10) from Parallax

There are a variety of games available, see the first part of this list Here which was put together by Oldbitcollector himself.
I guess this gives you an idea of what games his machine (and the propeller in general) can run.

You could even write your own with some programming skills, time, and the help of the wonderful people on this forum

By the way, I am in no way affiliated with the above products (except the one I built), and have got this knowledge from this forum, which is very active, and has many many knowledgeable and friendly people almost constantly online (It's sometimes difficult to keep track it moves so fast

Hope this helps

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pullmoll · 2010-05-18 10:51

heater said...
Strangely enough on this forum we have PullMoll, a major contributor to the MAME project. Author of the MAME Z80 emulator and now creator of the qZ80 emulator on the Prop.

So MAME on the Prop is, in a way, a lot closer than you might think[noparse]:)[/noparse]

Hmm.. no, not really. There may be some very old games, i.e. the so-called bronze age games of the 1970s, most of them on the 8080/8085 and S2650, that could be emulated on the Propeller. It's still a bit of work for every new piece of hardware. You wouldy always need yet another TV or VGA driver to do handle game display, and even if it is black & white only, it's oftentimes using special hardware in addition to the tile- or bitmapped video memory. I'm thinking of things like a bit shifter that was in the original Space Invaders hardware. This is all not too well suited for a tiny yet powerful µC which lacks only one thing: memory.

And honestly: who wants to play Space Invaders? This game is boring. The better ones are way too complicated for the Propeller.

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heater · 2010-05-18 11:06

PullMoll: Notice I did add the "in a way" to my statement. I was trying to infer a spiritual closeness rather than a practical one.
Still, you never know what happens around here[noparse]:)[/noparse]

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BradC · 2010-05-18 11:14

heater said...
Still, you never know what happens around here[noparse]:)[/noparse]

<Brad walks in towing red bunting> "Nyah, nyah you can't do it.. ". Can't be done I say. It's just not possible to fit all that into the tiny little chip. There's not enough duct tape in the world to bolt on the required hardware... and so on...

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nyje · 2010-05-18 11:14

@Pulmoll

True enough, but some 'bronze age games' still rock today - I spent 2 weeks building 2 stripboard based prop boards and learning/tinkering with spin so myself and a friend could play Battlez0wned head to head over 'hydranet' - It's how I discovered the propeller

Ok, ok I admit I was a BattleZone addict as a child

And I admit I never got the hydranet bit to work too well, (was not posting on the forum at the time) But we played side by side Happily

I think my post above gives a fair assessment of the possibilities for propeller gaming does it not?
I'm sure Oldbitcollector and his progeny would agree

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Bill Henning · 2010-05-18 16:40

Actually I am hoping that more of the old games will be re-written for the Propeller. Currently there are 25+ games available, which was enough of a start to make it worthwhile for me to design PropCade (see http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=894725 for PropCade's specs)

I think the Prop is great for 70's/80's era arcade games!

I even have a couple of new drivers in the works, unfortunately I won't have time to finish them until after UPEW.

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ericball · 2010-05-18 17:53

ddann said...
I was hoping to use this platform to make a mame machine out of. i found this blog http://learn1thing.blogspot.com/ and was hoping i could get pointed in the direction i need to go.. i wish to have it be able to output selectable arcade frquencies (as in 15k, 24k, and 31k ) but that can wait till im able to work out how to do what this guy Jeff at http://learn1thing.blogspot.com/ has done..

Scanning the site, OBC has taken a Propeller Platform Module and a Platform El Jugador Module (from Gadgetgangster.com) and connected them to a 19" TV (composite NTSC) and arcade controls via NES & Atari interfaces along with an SD card for storage then put the whole thing in an old arcade cabinet.

This is not MAME, it's not even an emulator. The Propeller runs ports of the various games. Although it may be possible to create an arcade game emulator using the Propeller, it will not be a port of MAME.

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Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2010-05-18 20:29

Eric pretty much summed it up..

It's a great project, and there are enough games, (more evolving) to make it a fun arcade machine.
(What's more you can write your own games: Plug for the propellerpowered.com project.)

I'd not monkey around with a TV.. Go to a LCD monitor.. I'll be doing the conversion hopefully before August
and bring the unit to UPENE.

OBC

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ddann · 2010-05-19 00:25

Hi All'

Thanks for the info, perhaps i over estimated whatt can be done.....

ok so porting or writing games is the way to go....is there any way or has anyone already done an RGB output in either 15k 24k or 31k ?

I'll have to do alot more reading me thinks

thanks

pullmoll · 2010-05-19 01:26

ddann said...
is there any way or has anyone already done an RGB output in either 15k 24k or 31k ?

Probably not, because 16K colours means 14 bits, which is impossible to do with the Propeller hardware. The most you can do with the VGA output is 8 bits, where 2 bits are required for horizontal and vertical sync. The remaining 6 bits are good enough for 64 colours - and that's it.
If you wanted to add a palette DAC, you could perhaps have 64 out of 16K or 32K or whatever colours on one display. I don't think that anyone has yet spent time trying something like this, because it's just overkill for the Propeller.

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ddann · 2010-05-19 02:04

Hi. sorry i should have described it a little better...

What i meant by 15k 24k and 31k, is the horizontal frequency of the display signal.. Eg 31k is 640*480 the others are basically CGA and EGA resolutions..

What i want to do is basically have and output that in the end will be switchable between these three RGB frequencies, if possible..

thanks

ddann · 2010-05-19 02:07

Hi. sorry i should have described it a little better...

What i meant by 15k 24k and 31k, is the horizontal frequency of the display signal.. Eg 31k is 640*480 the others are basically CGA and EGA resolutions..

What i want to do is basically have and output that in the end will be switchable between these three RGB frequencies, if possible..

thanks

DogP · 2010-05-19 02:57

Yeah, I've done CGA and EGA resolutions on the prop... I'd have to find it, but it was a simple modification to the VGA driver. I was using it as a test video generator for repairing arcade monitors on the bench. If I can find it, I'll post it to this thread. I was planning on putting a prop in a project box with a video connector and some buttons, and have a standalone video generator (since real ones cost a few hundred $$$, and this could do everything it needs to), but I ended up just loading the simple demo to a bare prop the couple times I needed it.

Pat

ddann · 2010-05-19 03:38

Hi Dogp'

This would be exactly what im after, hope you can find it.. my other intention was to do exactly the same, video generators cost way too much..

Thanks again

DogP · 2010-05-19 07:36

I'm glad I looked for this... it was on my old laptop, along with some other code I kinda forgot about. Anyway, I attached CGA_Demo.spin and CGA.spin, though I believe CGA.spin is identical to VGA.spin (I think I made a copy thinking I'd have to change something, but didn't need to). I think CGA_Demo.spin is pretty much a copy of VGA_Demo.spin, except at the bottom you'll notice commented sections with vgaparams values for CGA, EGA, and VGA.

I know I tested the CGA mode on a WG K4900... I believe I also tested the EGA mode on a WG K8000, but I can't remember for sure. If not, you may need to tweak the settings a little bit.

Anyway, I don't have my stuff set up to test with right now, but it should work... the file hasn't been modified since 2007 and I've used it since then, so the code should still work :P .

Be sure to post (and PM me if you don't mind) if you make any cool updates to this. I had planned on making test images and stuff (like: www.mcmelectronics.com/product/73-892), to help with adjusting colors, brightness, convergence, etc... but I got lazy, since typically on a bench, I just want to know whether a monitor works or doesn't, and to find out I just need ANY signal, including WOOF WOOF MEOW [noparse]:D[/noparse] . You really need to make the final adjustments in the cab with whatever game you're running hooked up anyway.

Pat

ddann · 2010-05-19 23:47

Thanks for that, do appreciate it..

Ill let you know how i go

Thanks
Dan

mame on propeller chip

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