UPEC... part 2...PropHead Proves that Alan Turing was wrong

rjo_

Mike Davey brought his "Touring Machine" to UPEC.· I have to admit that my attention has been deflected, diverted and otherwise misdirected lately.· So,· I actually hadn't seen any of the excitement.· I knew that Mike was bringing a Turing machine, but I hadn't seen the pictures and didn't have a clue as to what it actually was when I stood right in· front of it.· And I hadn't seen this:
http://www.parallax.com/tabid/854/Default.aspx

Alan Turing forwarded the hypothesis that if one took an infinitely long piece of paper· or tape and partitioned it into cells and·then used a few simple rules of logic, one could use that piece of paper as a computer.· Alan Turing spent the rest of his life looking for an infinitely long· piece of tape
.
Mike Davey proved that you don't actually need an infinitely long· piece of tape... a very long piece of tape will do.

Mike demonstrated that not only can a Turing machine be built... but also that you can use Turing logic to do image processing.

Mike explained that his mother made him go out into the pasture and count the cows every morning.· Every day, Mike would count the cows and come up with exactly the same number.· Having read Descarte and Milford, Mike naturally was drawn to the question ...· "what is a number?" and this question has stuck with him since.· Mike is primarily interested in the computability of numbers.
So, if you have had a lifelong· interest in the computability of numbers... Mike wants to hear·from you.


·

Oldbitcollector (Jeff)

rjo_ said...

... "what is a number?" and this question has stuck with him since. Mike is primarily interested in the computability of numbers.

So, if you have had a lifelong interest in the computability of numbers... Mike wants to hear from you.

Love it!

/me waits fro Mike's response!

OBC

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Dr_Acula

Re "PropHead Proves that Alan Turing was wrong"

Arrr, them's fightin' words...

I like a mathematical challenge.

Ok, how about you calculate and store all prime numbers? Is this possible on a finite length of tape, or do you need an infinite length?

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www.smarthome.viviti.com/propeller

heater

How was Alan wrong?

Presumably if you want to calculate something really big you need a really long piece of tape. In the extreme a problem can require an infinitely long piece of tape. But then that implies that it's going to take an infinite amount of time to complete the calculation, or even just print the result. Which means the machine never halts. So there is no point in starting. Turing always did give me headache[noparse]:)[/noparse]

Anyway Mike's Turing machine is a truly insane and wonderful creation which I would dearly love to see in action. The idea of writing to film in such a way as to be able to erase and modify the "content" is pure genius.

Presumably the symbols on the tape need not be limited to zeros and ones (and space?). With a bit more effort in the character recognition ASCII, say, could be used. Still simplicity is a worthwhile goal here.

By the way, what's the idea with the user interface? Surely the tape itself is the input and output we should be interested in.

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For me, the past is not over yet.

rjo_

Doctor Acula...

Actually... it is possible... and if I life long enough... and if Mike's parts bin is big enough... we could compute prime numbers with a Babbage machine.

We just need a cnc machine that can produce gears of all sizes and shapes and we are off to the races[noparse]:)[/noparse]

John R.

Having seen the machine in action, I can promise you that the 1000 foot leader is "infinite" for all practical (and many impractical) purposes.

As Mike pointed out, the machine would take 5 years to do what an ORIGINAL IBM PC could do in one second.

So, by the time you got past the first 500 feet of tape, you'd have long stopped caring about the entire set of prime numbers. By the time you got through 1000 feet of leader, nobody would remember what the machine was calculating.

This is not a rap against the machine, just a rap against those "hung up" on an issue that really is not an issue. If Turing were here to see it, I suspect he would more likely smack Mike upside the head for even building the thing, and then say "but it's really neat to watch".

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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

rjo_

My guess is that if Turing was there... he would have spent all his time with the kids at the Nickle-o-matic... a perfect baby sitter in a box[noparse]:)[/noparse]

sylvie369

How do we know that Mike's reel of film isn't infinitely long? I didn't see anyone unroll it, and I'm going to believe it was infinite until someone demonstrates otherwise.

As far as the machine being slow compared with the original IBM PC, as I pointed out to Mike, he could replace the black pen with a blue one, program it to fill in the entire cell instead of just print a 0 or 1, and he'd have quick and complete Windows emulator.

rjo_

I have been smiling so long that my face hurts... now you have me laughing... and this could go on for days[noparse]:)[/noparse]

RossH

sylvie369 said...
As far as the machine being slow compared with the original IBM PC, as I pointed out to Mike, he could replace the black pen with a blue one, program it to fill in the entire cell instead of just print a 0 or 1, and he'd have quick and complete Windows emulator.

... and one which would easily outperform Vista!

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Toby Seckshund

I showed the video to my father, it almost brought a tear to his eye to see Mike's wonderful machine. It was the sort of thing he used to do, when he could.

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Style and grace : Nil point

heater

I much prefer the architecture of Mike's Turing machine over that of the IBM PC. Never did like segmented memory.

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For me, the past is not over yet.

rjo_

Mike was horribly interested in being invited to the Turing Museum... but doesn't think it will happen. Maybe one of the locals could give the Turing folks a call and ask if we went to the work to program the machine to produce prime numbers... would they pick up the tab for Mike?

If we don't work together we will all fall apart.

Rich

mdavey

Hi Gang. I've been terribly remiss in not seeing my Turing machine and my extensive interest in the the "finer details of computability of numbers" being discussed. After Saturday I spent a day or so on the road doing a few other things, so this is the first time I've looked at the forums.

Saturday was great by the way, a big hats off to everyone that put the work into getting the event setup so that we all could enjoy it.

I'm reading along and I see "Mike explained that his mother made him go out into the pasture ..." at that point I'm thinking, I'm not sure I remember telling that story, but then I did talk with a lot of people that day. Then it dawns on me that maybe Rich is pulling my leg a bit. Maybe I spent too much time driving by myself. It is good to see thought that even here a mention of the infinite tape issue bring out the discussions, I love it.

It was nice to meet everyone, we often spend too much time in the shops and not face to face.

Mike

rjo_

Just a little. But I was serious about my lobbying effort to get you invited over to the Turing Institute. That is one elegant machine. You blend art and technology so well it is hard to see the difference.

Rich