PCB milling machines - JCUT-3030 PCB - any good?

Peter Jakacki

I want to be able to churn out simple pcbs to mount my PUPPY modules on etc and I have been looking at some cheap PCB milling machines that mill away the copper around a track and also drill the pcbs. Has anyone had any experience with these cheaper machines?

jcut2.ec51.com/sell-show-pcb_cnc_router-281942.html

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*Peter*

Martin Hodge

What's the price? It looks expensive.

Peter Jakacki

I have been given the price of $2500 (Australian) plus $400 freight which is a lot cheaper than many other machines. It takes a Gerber straight from my Protel software.

Specs: www.cnc-laser-cutter.com/PCBcncrouter.html
Drilling: www.youtube.com/watch?v=WF8DPSS9JnE
Milling: www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KZqqSEMITo&feature=related

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*Peter*

T Chap

Peter, not an answer you are asking for you but for 2900 you can buy a lot of silk screen solder masked boards, and still have money left over to buy a used Taig benchtop machine to do machine of all kinds of parts. Once you make a board, you then have to deal with all the hassles of through holes, no silk, no mask, non-pro looking boards.... pain in the butt. Get a used Taig and make your own PCBs at home if you like, plus have new boards for the PUPPY.

Better yet, order new boards, buy a used benchtop, and even still have money left to rig up a home brew pick n place like I did here:


www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW0z5Hct3xU

[noparse]:)[/noparse]

Post Edited (Todd Chapman) : 5/6/2010 4:49:25 PM GMT

Peter Jakacki

The prototypes are an ongoing week to week thing so the machine would soon pay for itself. Even if it produces a board good enough for testing that would do. I expect the single sided pcbs to be very plain without mask etc.

I did look at the Taig MicroMill CR, how would that be for milling pcbs? Would you just rely on G-code or a gerber? The machine looks powerful and precise enough for a lot of jobs, even routing out plastic and metal enclosures.

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*Peter*

T Chap

I have routed traces with my benchtop which has some taig components (spindle, collets) and it does a good job. Eagle has a ULP feature which allows exporting Gcode and for routing and drills, and Mach3 is my preference for running the machine. I recall doing fairly small traces, maybe 10 - 12mil? There would sometimes be a cut trace, but on a small board that is not a big deal since it is usually visually detected with the naked eye. The throughole plating became a big hassle, I was using LPKF liquid which was expensive an did not take solder/heat well.

One point about getting a decent CNC is that you can do so many other things with it. I have machined stainless, steel, alum, delrin, polycarb, and glass all on a $2500 benchtop very similar to the taig benchtop. The machine also doubles as pick and place weekly for production. I order panelized 12 x 14 boards from Sunstone, and route the individual boards on the CNC, which is very convenient. Many people will have derog comments but I really like Bobcad for generating code for machining, and mach3 is great for running the code, good low cost combo compared to the big boys.

You have a good argument about prototyping, but keep in mind there IS a hassle factor with routing PCBs that you have to weigh in when calculating protos though (you know better than me, just a reminder [noparse]:)[/noparse] ) After many hundreds or even thousands of hours on this path of making and assembling boards, I do not believe there is any benefit to routing boards at home even for protos. At least with the benchtop CNC, and then you get long term value out of the machine. Routing PCBs can take time on a machine, I always opted for etching with chemicals over routing, then drilling with the Gcode.

Post Edited (Todd Chapman) : 5/7/2010 6:44:33 AM GMT

Leon

I have a Taig lathe. There is a very useful Yahoo group for their lathes and milling machines:

groups.yahoo.com/group/taigtools/

I think that some people there have used them for making PCBs. I use photo etch at home and can make a PCB in under 30 minutes, with 8 mil tracks. I don't see the point of buying an expensive machine to make them.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

John R.

I'm with Leon on this. I even have a tough time with the whole "Inkjet PCB" thing (using an inkjet to print directly on a PCB for etching). The question becomes "why?". Before high quality output from Laser printers (or even inkjets) was available, and phot-etching required processing images from hardcopy to get a negative, etc., milling may have made sense.

Why would you want to take the time to mill a board when you can print a couple transparencies, throw them under a light, develop and etch them? It's easier, faster, and you can get "finer" results (trace width, spacing, etc.).

The most expensive part of the whole thing is the lights, and you don't "need" to have UV lights, it just makes exposre faster. Heck, when I was a "kid", I use the sun to expose boards made with hand inked "masters" (circa 1970 ish).

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John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

Leon

The only downside to photo-etch (and TT) is having to drill the holes; that is where CNC could be very useful. However, surface-mount does away with most of them.

I even supply home-made prototypes to clients, sometimes. One of them is still using my boards in a high-power ultrasonic system I designed for him about six years ago.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

Post Edited (Leon) : 5/7/2010 3:35:51 PM GMT

Peter Jakacki

The precision drilling aspect is probably more appealing to me even if I did etch the boards. Also knowing too that I can use this unit to route out enclosures is very handy.

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*Peter*

Leon

For a dedicated CNC drilling machine polar co-ordinates are very attractive - a turntable for the PCB and a radial arm for the drill. Elektor sold a kit using that sort of arrangement some years ago. I keep meaning to have a go at building my own version. It would also simplify a PCB milling machine.

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

Post Edited (Leon) : 5/7/2010 4:30:39 PM GMT

T Chap

Drilling with a drill press is very fast and precise after the board is already etched. The drill bit just falls right into the hole in the copper, and the process can go very fast. Otherwise just find two points on the PCB to use for reference, and export the drill coords into the machine and CNC drill it. Honestly, for a small board with not that many holes, a drill press will be faster and just as accurate if there is copper already etched to provide guidance for drilling. It takes time to place the board, align to the ref marks, fine tune if it is out, etc. You drill 1 hole per 1 or 2 seconds with a drill press. It will take longer than that to place a PCB on a machine, align it, fine tune it.

Post Edited (Todd Chapman) : 5/7/2010 4:39:21 PM GMT

Martin Hodge

THIS is the machine I want! I wonder if it costs five or six figures.

pjv

Martin;

It is well into the sixes, but they have less costly models, if I recall correctly in the $20K range.

Occasionally they pop up on ebay.

Cheers,

Peter