But couldn't you throw your weight around and beg Chip to bump the chip up to a total of 1MB of built in RAM, despite the costs?
I mean, with one megabyte of RAM, let's see...we could do WQVGA (as wide screens are becoming the standard) at 400x240 ...
Yes, RAM size is going to be critical, but there may be other way to crack the Memory conundrum ?.
I see the new 200MHz Rabbit6000, has 1MB of on chip RAM, and they went to DRAM to keep die size down.
They do 32KB of battery backed SRAM.
That looked like quite a smart trade-off.
There is also SDR SDRAM, which could be supported with a relatively simple SDRAM interface ?
The software that did this for each visible scan line was just:
mov pairs,#256 'ready for 512 pixels
:loop mov pixels,h7FFF7FFF 'set two 5:5:5 background pixels to WHITE
pixf pixels 'alpha blend next texel into low-word pixel
pixf pixels 'alpha blend next texel into high-word pixel
waitvid scale,pixels 'output two pixels
djnz pairs,#:loop 'loop until 512 pixels output
Any chance of a more complete ASM / opode dump ?
(since you have an assembler working... just drop any asm tester listing file will do )
@Bill -->Looks to me, like we've got a 512 pixel / scan line display loop there. Think about that, in terms of a Prop I waitvid loop, and I think your spec you posed on this thread is no problem [noparse]:)[/noparse]
He must be working with a dev board like this Taiwanese
Stratix III board
That earlier youtube video was great.
Must be able to simulate at a good speed
as it seemed fast and smooth.
(video posted by nh3cl ??? Ammonium Chloride? ...must be a chemical engineer)
Altera DE3 Development System
(Currency: USD)
Price: $2,695
Holy @#$&!
Maybe they would take an old stk500 in trade
Oboy! you can stack up to ten of these for more cowbell!
(Just take out a 2nd mortgage)
Post Edited (HollyMinkowski) : 4/21/2010 7:08:18 AM GMT
It looked familiar...but yup, nh3cl is chloramine...
I think it would be dangerous...something like the fumes you
might get if you mixed up bleach and other cleaning stuff.
"Build our own Prop IIs"? Uh-oh! Make a note to hire (more) security guards for UPEW (or take the dev. system home before). Gee, Apple already lost or "lost" a next-gen iPhone recently.
Thanks for the comment on the size of SRAM, Cluso. Yeah, I was thinking that getting to 1MB would, in the worst case, quadruple the die size, but hopefully only triple or double it, particularly if the current design has 384KB instead of 256KB. Anyway, all those transistors might have quite an appetitie for power, and don't know if there would be a way to power-down unused sections.
What's that? Dateline Monday, August 2nd, 2010: Parallax announces three--not just one--versions of the Prop ][noparse][[/noparse]. Today, in a surprise announcement, Parallax's Ken (last name withheld) said that the new Prop ][noparse][[/noparse] would come configured with 512KB, 784KB and 1MB of SRAM. The 1M package will reportedly comprise a built-in liquid helium cooling system. Overall, the news was welcomed by Propeller users, but some feared that it could lead to fragmentation of the Propeller ecosystem. In other news, cold fusion comes back from the dead.... Source: crystalball.gargle.com
P.S.:· I wasn't trying to start something new with using ][noparse][[/noparse] for II, just wanted to throw off search engines.
Post Edited (JRetSapDoog) : 4/21/2010 4:41:11 PM GMT
JRetSapDoog said...
.....In other news, cold fusion comes back from the dead....
Really? It wasn't just hibernating?
In any case, going from the RTL model (what's living in that FPGA) to silicon can be an interesting process. (And that's even after delegating all of the stuff involving hydrofluoric acid to somebody else....)
Alas upon graduating a while back I was only able to find work babysitting webservers....so I have to make due playing with somebody else's micros.
Does anybody remember cache drams? It was a short-lived device used before they could get large caches on microprocessors. It was a combination of a dram with a small high-speed sram. Dram access would take place an entire row at a time, so you might read a kilobyte to the sram in one access. Video dram used the same technique, although some chips only accessed half a row at a time. Reading an entire row at a time, the raw bandwidth is enormous.
If you're going to do 3D graphics on the Prop ][noparse][[/noparse], something like cache dram would be a nice thing to have. Not only for larger memory size, but the high bandwidth as well. Also, if the cog memory were implemented as cache blocks, you could swap out large code blocks in a couple memory cycles, which would be nice for applications which find the cog memory confining.
Do you realise the onchip SRAMs will be running at 6.125ns cycle time !!!!
160MHz single cycle instructions - and there are 8 processors doing this !!!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
UGGHH, i am just trying to figure out how to use the prop 1, never mind the prop 2....... SOUNDs cool anyway. I wonder when they are goinh to release it?
JRetSapDoog said...
".. I was thinking that getting to 1MB would, in the worst case, quadruple the die size, but hopefully only triple or double it, particularly if the current design has 384KB instead of 256KB.
Not if they use DRAM, (or a mix of DRAM & SRAM) ?
Infineon and Rabbit have devices with DRAM to slash the die area cost, and for video apps, dram is fine as the refresh is
implicit in the scan.
As much as people are drooling over any hints of the Prop II, it will likely be a year or more from now before we see it. Don't wait. Enjoy the Prop I. Enjoy what amazing things people are already doing with the Prop I.
Comments
Oh My, that sounds complicated
I wonder if it can emulate the prop2 at anything
approaching what it's native speed would be?
I'm adding that to my lexicon right now. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
8x8 color 80 Column NTSC Text Object
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
Yes, RAM size is going to be critical, but there may be other way to crack the Memory conundrum ?.
I see the new 200MHz Rabbit6000, has 1MB of on chip RAM, and they went to DRAM to keep die size down.
They do 32KB of battery backed SRAM.
That looked like quite a smart trade-off.
There is also SDR SDRAM, which could be supported with a relatively simple SDRAM interface ?
mov pairs,#256 'ready for 512 pixels :loop mov pixels,h7FFF7FFF 'set two 5:5:5 background pixels to WHITE pixf pixels 'alpha blend next texel into low-word pixel pixf pixels 'alpha blend next texel into high-word pixel waitvid scale,pixels 'output two pixels djnz pairs,#:loop 'loop until 512 pixels outputAny chance of a more complete ASM / opode dump ?
(since you have an assembler working... just drop any asm tester listing file will do )
Post Edited (jmg) : 4/21/2010 6:14:52 AM GMT
Good times ahead!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
8x8 color 80 Column NTSC Text Object
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
Stratix III board
That earlier youtube video was great.
Must be able to simulate at a good speed
as it seemed fast and smooth.
(video posted by nh3cl ??? Ammonium Chloride? ...must be a chemical engineer)
Altera DE3 Development System
(Currency: USD)
Price: $2,695
Holy @#$&!
Maybe they would take an old stk500 in trade
Oboy! you can stack up to ten of these for more cowbell!
(Just take out a 2nd mortgage)
Post Edited (HollyMinkowski) : 4/21/2010 7:08:18 AM GMT
They have some silicon as far as I remember...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU
pPropellerSim - A propeller simulator for ASM development sourceforge.net/projects/ppropellersim
I think it would be dangerous...something like the fumes you
might get if you mixed up bleach and other cleaning stuff.
Maybe it's a ham call..not a chem name
Holly, it would be something like that Stratix III pcb but no doubt comes from Altera.
Wouldn't just love to get your hands on that PropII Stratix code so we could build our own PropII's
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
Thanks for the comment on the size of SRAM, Cluso. Yeah, I was thinking that getting to 1MB would, in the worst case, quadruple the die size, but hopefully only triple or double it, particularly if the current design has 384KB instead of 256KB. Anyway, all those transistors might have quite an appetitie for power, and don't know if there would be a way to power-down unused sections.
What's that? Dateline Monday, August 2nd, 2010: Parallax announces three--not just one--versions of the Prop ][noparse][[/noparse]. Today, in a surprise announcement, Parallax's Ken (last name withheld) said that the new Prop ][noparse][[/noparse] would come configured with 512KB, 784KB and 1MB of SRAM. The 1M package will reportedly comprise a built-in liquid helium cooling system. Overall, the news was welcomed by Propeller users, but some feared that it could lead to fragmentation of the Propeller ecosystem. In other news, cold fusion comes back from the dead.... Source: crystalball.gargle.com
P.S.:· I wasn't trying to start something new with using ][noparse][[/noparse] for II, just wanted to throw off search engines.
Post Edited (JRetSapDoog) : 4/21/2010 4:41:11 PM GMT
In any case, going from the RTL model (what's living in that FPGA) to silicon can be an interesting process. (And that's even after delegating all of the stuff involving hydrofluoric acid to somebody else....)
Alas upon graduating a while back I was only able to find work babysitting webservers....so I have to make due playing with somebody else's micros.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--RvnPhnx
If you're going to do 3D graphics on the Prop ][noparse][[/noparse], something like cache dram would be a nice thing to have. Not only for larger memory size, but the high bandwidth as well. Also, if the cog memory were implemented as cache blocks, you could swap out large code blocks in a couple memory cycles, which would be nice for applications which find the cog memory confining.
-phar
Hey Chip... I'm buying! Hint, hint, hint!
Bill
160MHz single cycle instructions - and there are 8 processors doing this !!!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
Here's a link to Turbulence.
www.linusakesson.net/scene/turbulence/index.php
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
humanoido
*Stamp SEED Supercomputer *Basic Stamp Supercomputer *TriCore Stamp Supercomputer
*Minuscule Stamp Supercomputer *Tiny Stamp Supercomputer *Penguin with 12 Brains
*BASIC Stamp Supercomputing Book *Three Dimensional Computer *StampOne News!
*Penguin Tech *Penguin Robot Society *Toddler Humanoid Robot Project
*Ultimate List Prop Languages *Prop-a-Lot *Propalot Stuff *Prop SC Computer
*Prop IB Hypercomputer - under development *Hobby Space Program
Post Edited (humanoido) : 4/22/2010 5:05:37 AM GMT
Thanks for the Turbulence link ... I had not experienced it before. Stunning!
T o n y
Not if they use DRAM, (or a mix of DRAM & SRAM) ?
Infineon and Rabbit have devices with DRAM to slash the die area cost, and for video apps, dram is fine as the refresh is
implicit in the scan.