Is Sunstone Circuits a good choice?
Michael @ Afineol
Posts: 33
I am getting ready to create my first PCB and would like some opinions on how to proceed. I am thinking about using Sunstone Circuits. I have downloaded their design software PCB123, and only need their minimum of 4 boards. At the center of this PCB is the Propeller P8X32A-D40. I understand that in small quantities through hole is cheaper than surface mount. Since all my parts can be purchased as through hole, this makes sense to me.
One of the specific questions I have for those who have used PCB123 is for the P8X32A-D40 (600mil PDIP-40) do I use the, from the std.slb library, “DIP40_600, 40 pins, 0.6in x 0.1in” or the “DIP40, 40 pins, 0.6in x 0.1in” part? The second one comes closer to the dimensions on Parallax’s website.
As with everything, the first time is always the hardest, but I would like to keep the mistakes (a.k.a. money) to a minimum since my budget is a little tight.
Anything that can shed light on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I am open to any and all suggestions. I am not married to Sunstone or PCB123. I am just looking for an entry level solution. So if your suggestion is to stand on one leg, recite the Gettysburg Address and click (ctrl, z, q), it probably won’t help me.
One of the specific questions I have for those who have used PCB123 is for the P8X32A-D40 (600mil PDIP-40) do I use the, from the std.slb library, “DIP40_600, 40 pins, 0.6in x 0.1in” or the “DIP40, 40 pins, 0.6in x 0.1in” part? The second one comes closer to the dimensions on Parallax’s website.
As with everything, the first time is always the hardest, but I would like to keep the mistakes (a.k.a. money) to a minimum since my budget is a little tight.
Anything that can shed light on this subject would be greatly appreciated. I am open to any and all suggestions. I am not married to Sunstone or PCB123. I am just looking for an entry level solution. So if your suggestion is to stand on one leg, recite the Gettysburg Address and click (ctrl, z, q), it probably won’t help me.
Comments
eagle cad is free to use for small personal projects and it will generate gerber files which can be used at any fab shop. Most other pcb cad software also offer inexpensive to free versions for limited non commercial use.
As for through hole vs surface mount this depends on how stable a hand you have and what parts you want to use. If you are making pcbs at home through hole is best. if a fab shop is making with a solder mask the QFP, SOIC, TSSOP, and 0603, 0805 parts are all very easy to hand assemble and thus not expensive to use for small runs. QFN, and BGA require special tools and parts to solder making these expensive to use for small runs.
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An appreciated alternative is Diptrace. It is free for non commercial use up to 250 pins, but if you ask you will receive an extension of the free license up to 500 pins. Moreover it offers the possibility to panelize the same or different boards (and it does not impact on the pin count..).
I just made my first order using Diptrace, and I don't know the outcome yet, but until now it looks promising..
Massimo
But for low quantity, PCB123 is great.
If you want lower cost and faster delivery and can live without things like autorouting and checking, then I'd recommend ExpressPCB.
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
My Prop Products:· http://www.rayslogic.com/Propeller/Products/Products.htm
ExpressPCB fabrication is good enough quality, but trying to get anything useful done from them is a problem (like V-scoring or panelization); gerbers are $60, and I have had a few other issues. Their software is easy (though over simplified in many respects -- dumb/simple library, no rule checking whatsoever, etc.) to use and they are reasonably priced for the low or medium-low order quantity.
I have been using DipTrace for a couple weeks now and I am completely blown away (after getting used to ExpressPCB) by the ease of creating schematics and components. I am a little disappointed in PCB autoplacement/autorouting, but I have a small board with a lot of parts; I didn't expect it to give me a completed product with one click of my mouse, but I am finding myself putting together more than half my board with manual operations, then allowing the program do a few specific things automatically.
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April, 2008: when I discovered the answers to all my micro-computational-botherations!
Some of my objects:
MCP3X0X ADC Driver - Programmable Schmitt inputs, frequency reading, and more!
Simple Propeller-based Database - Making life easier and more readable for all your EEPROM storage needs.
String Manipulation Library - Don't allow strings to be the bane of the Propeller, bend them to your will!
Fast Inter-Propeller Comm - Fast communication between two propellers (1.37MB/s @100MHz)!
I haven't had any boards made yet (will do soon though) but was looking at Silver Circuits (http://custompcb.com) as they are cheaper than the other places I've looked at - $110 US for six 6.3" x 4" boards with their prototype service (6.3" x 4" is the max size but it seems to cost you the same if it's smaller so might as well fill it up)
Bean
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Use BASIC on the Propeller with the speed of assembly language.
PropBASIC thread http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=867134
March 2010 Nuts and Volts article·http://www.parallax.com/Portals/0/Downloads/docs/cols/nv/prop/col/nvp5.pdf
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There are two rules in life:
· 1) Never divulge all information
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
For my propmod-1x1 PCB they charge 4 times what I payed and they do not:
*electrically test
*make rohs compliant
*Include shipping cost to canada
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ourpcb.com
There quality & price is excellent, they respond very quickly. You talk directly with the chinese factory!
Thanks
Dave M
I wouldn't be terribly quick to dismiss a company that supplies software as well as making PCBs -- especially those that *don't make you use the software*, and are happy to take gerber files (Sunstone is one such company). The software is *often* there as a way to help ensure you get working boards on the first try, which was the primary concern of the original post. Are the footprints right for the Propellor? I don't know, but I do know that if you call Sunstone and ask they will answer. I'm not sure about the other companies, but I know that if you call EAGLE (now owned by a parts distributor, by the way) you may not get help with anything other than the number of a dealer.
Also, it really isn't useful to blurt out "XYZ company is cheaper" without posting your complete specs, and preferably even the design files. Sunstone, last time I checked, offered 4 levels of service. Which one did you quote? Which one did you use at the "cheaper" place? Details matter, obviously. Unless, of course, your point is to spam the readers here -- which I hope isn't the case.
* Shameless Plug *
Unsure if you have the right gerbers and need a quick preview? Try my free gerber file viewer at http://www.circuitpeople.com for print-quality images.
Here are a few observations from a novices point of view.
I started with the Sunstone PCB123. From a layout standpoint I think they have the best interface. It is real obvious the size of the PCB, how to add components from the built in library and the price is always in the upper right. The downside (and the reasons I will not use them) is their parts library appears to be limited to NXT and DigiKey. Additionally, it is proprietary to Sunstone. I do want to have options of what fabrication house to use.
I then downloaded Eagle. I spent this last weekend to teach myself how to download libraries, find parts, place them on my schematic and attach wires. What I don’t quite understand is, when I place a wire on a pin, it does not always attach. Also, it seems very limiting to define the max size of the PCB you can create. Even the Standard version has, what I would call, a small PCB footprint. The program appears to be very powerful, but a little intimidating to the novice.· The upside to this product appears to be longevity. I almost purchased the standard edition, and thought I should try atleast one more before I buy.
I then downloaded DipTrace this morning. Now keep in mind I spent time with Eagle this weekend (which probably cut down some basic learning curve time). DipTrace is so much easier to use. All the parts that I need for my project are in the library. The interface is very intuitive. I also like the fact it is limited by the number of connections and not size of PCB. I think I have found my new home. I should know after a few hours.
Do take your time to find the program you love. Once you start using it, it becomes hard to change because you build up a large library of work and parts.
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Lots of propeller based products in stock at affordable prices.
OK lets compare some companies:
Product: PropMod-1x1
Board Dimensions: 1.0x0.9"
Via Size: 15mil
Trace Size/Spacing: 12mil/8mil
Plating: ROHS compliant Silver
Number of Boards: 168
Solder mask: Both Sides
Silk Screen: Top Side
Electrical Testing: Yes
Build/Ship Time: 7/3days
Gold Phoenix: $139 shipping included
SunStone ValueProto: $529 is not ROHS Compliant, is not tested
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Lots of propeller based products in stock at affordable prices.
Makes no difference to the functionality, but that sort of thing is just intolerable to me.
Yeah, I'm picky.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
Post Edited (W9GFO) : 4/20/2010 5:39:37 AM GMT
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Lots of propeller based products in stock at affordable prices.
I've gotta learn that I can't quote reply to my own posts.
Rich H
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The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
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Lots of propeller based products in stock at affordable prices.
I just received the boards from Olimex using diptrace.
Design requirements are odd, and rigid. On the other hand the boards are cheap (for an European hobbyist) and really well done.
Moreover they depanelize the board for free.
Massimo
http://www.technicgang.com/best-free-pcb-design-softwares/
I decided to switch from Eagle to DipTrace after reading this post:
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/128576/eagle-or-diptrace/p1
I was very glad I switched. It didn't take me long to be better at using DipTrace than I had ever been at using Eagle.
I don't use DipTrace's auto place or auto route. Last time I tried these functions they didn't work well.
Here's a link to some boards I had made.
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/comment/1246274/#Comment_1246274
I had these boards made at DirtyPcb.
Like many of the less expensive fab houses there are small errors in alignment but the boards work fine. DirtyPcb also make it easy to order solder paste stencils though I don't think these are hard to order anyway.
The above board has too many pins for the free version of DipTrace. I have the least expensive license which allows one to use the program commercially.
The little LED boards below cost $0.30 each.
The components added to each board cost less the 25 cents.
I think OSH Park's quality is better than many of the inexpensive places but OSH Park charges more than the cheap fab houses. OSH Park requires one to purchase boards in multiples of three. A lot of the really inexpensive places require a minimum of 10 boards. 10 boards from a cheap place can cost less than 3 boards from OSH Park.
It didn't seem like he was trying to sell anything....yet:)