Worthy Cloning
Humanoido
Posts: 5,770
What are some famous (or little known) computers in history that are worthy of a prop-based retro cloning project?
What comes to my mind: various CRAYs, the Collussus Machine, Transputer, Eniac, ...
humanoido
What comes to my mind: various CRAYs, the Collussus Machine, Transputer, Eniac, ...
humanoido
Comments
Word Length: 15 bits plus parity.
Fixed Memory Registers: 36,864 Words.
Erasable Memory Registors: 2.048 Words.
Number of Normal Instructions: 34.
Number of Involuntary instructions
(Increment, interrupt, etc.): 10.
Number of Interface Circuits: 227.
Memory Cycle time: 11.7 microseconds.
Addition Time: 23.4 microseconds.
Multiplication Time: 46.8 microseconds.
Number of Logic Gates: 5,600 (2,800 packages)
Volume: 0.97 cubic feet.
Weight: 70 pounds.
Power Consumption: 55 watts.
www.ibiblio.org/apollo/
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For me, the past is not over yet.
PDP8
IBM 1401
Data General Nova
W.O.P.R.
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Check out the Propeller Wiki·and contribute if you can.
I never thought of fictional computers.
How are we going to make one of those?
The original Star Trek series had a talking computer with lights.
It liked to say, "Working" though I don't remember if it had a name other than "Computer.".
Do you have any other stats on that?
humanoido
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orac_(Blake%27s_7)
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For me, the past is not over yet.
They'll be a hit with CS profs teaching from Knuth's books.
-Phil
I'd think it possible to do the Timex/Sinclair 1000; you couldn't do the video the way they did but you wouldn't want to.
On the big iron side you could probably do a DEC PDP-10 (System 10) or VAX 11/780 with one of the SD paging schemes.
The Hewlett-Packard 2100 was the embedded CPU of its day, its day being 1974. The bare unit from HP had no user interface; it was about the size of a dorm fridge, and on the front had maybe 25 buttons which could be lit up. You used these to enter addresses and data in binary. And this was how you had to enter the loader that would go to some real bulk I/O device to load the program you really wanted to run. You didn't have to do this all the time because the RAM was magnetic core so it held its data through power cycles. Since it only ran at IIRC 170 kHZ (that's a k, not a m) you could probably run the program out of EEPROM on a prop.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
- Use the Propeller and a bit of glue logic to have it emulate the "Electric Crayon" video option for the old TRS-80 Model I system. It was a rare option and if the video was emulated in the Propeller it could then be used as a real add-on for those TRS-80 owners that never got one (I'm one of those). It might also be able to connect to the TRS-80 emulator that PullMoll just wrote (amazing job) if you have a couple propeller chips.
- Perhaps emulate a KIM 1 system and add the emulated video from the "Cheap Video Cookbook" and other options.
Robert
My $0.02 would be the IBM 5100 - considered by some to be the first true desktop computer. Even had a little screen - way spiffy for its time. A senior engineer I knew at IBM still had one, and used it.
But I also love the suggestion of the NOVA and the PDP-8.
edit: ...and the Apollo guidance computer. Best suggestion of all, imho. There was some pretty tight code written for it.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
The idea appeals to me as it has an "embedded flavour" about it which matches the Prop.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU
pPropellerSim - A propeller simulator for ASM development sourceforge.net/projects/ppropellersim
You've answered the lingering question I had...
> The idea appeals to me as it has an "embedded flavour" about it which matches the Prop.
Absolutely! In some senses, it's the ultimate embedded controller. All the crazy Parallax sensors (accelerometers, flux-gate compasses, etc) would add to the realism of a Prop implementation.
For added authenticity, it ought to have a Modula 2, ADA, or Pascal compiler written for it.
What on earth are you talking about?
Modula and ADA did not exist at that time and Pascal was just being created in 1968.
None of them ever ran on the Apollo guidance computers, it was all done in assembler.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
After dreaming about the HP-71B i finally got one last year. Really nice machine, but I don't use it... I don't want to damage it
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Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU
pPropellerSim - A propeller simulator for ASM development sourceforge.net/projects/ppropellersim
The original AGC assembly code can be downloaded from the M.I.T. website.
Check this link by John Pultorak. In his words... "This report describes my successful project to build a working reproduction of the 1964 prototype for the Block I Apollo Guidance Computer. The AGC is the flight computer for the Apollo moon landings, with one unit in the command module and one in the LEM.
I built it in my basement. It took me 4 years."
Apollo Guidance Computer (AGC)
How to build one in your basement
agcreplica.outel.org/
I also like his reasoning for the project.
"Why build an AGC? Early computers are interesting. Beacuse they're simple, you can (if you like) actually understand the entire computer, from hardware to software. The AGC is the most interesting early computer because: it flew the first men to the moon and has interesting architectural features."
Original AGC:
Designed by M.I.T. in 1964
World's first microchip computer
Prototype computer for Apollo moon landing
Memory: 12K fixed (ROM), 1K eraseable (RAM)
Clock: 1.024 MHz
Computing: 11 instructions, 16 bit word
Logic: ~5000 ICs (3-input NOR gates, RTL logic)
My AGC:
Built from original M.I.T. design documents
Started November 2000, completed October 2004
~15K hand-wrapped wire connections; ~3500 feet of wire
Cost (parts only): $2,980.
Labor: ~2500 hours
Logic: ~500 ICs (LSTTL logic)
Runs flight software (1969 program name: COLOSSUS 249)
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humanoido
*Stamp SEED Supercomputer *Basic Stamp Supercomputer *TriCore Stamp Supercomputer
*Minuscule Stamp Supercomputer *Tiny Stamp Supercomputer *Penguin with 12 Brains
*BASIC Stamp Supercomputing Book *Three Dimensional Computer *StampOne News!
*Penguin Tech *Penguin Robot Society *Toddler Humanoid Robot Project
*Ultimate List Prop Languages *Prop-a-Lot *Propalot Stuff *Prop SC Computer
*Prop IB Hypercomputer - under development *Hobby Space Program
Post Edited (humanoido) : 4/2/2010 9:12:06 PM GMT
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LEO_computer
or it's predecessor, EDSAC:
www.maa.org/mathland/mathland_7_1.html
I worked on the LEO III when I was a student with English-Electric-Leo Computers, and designed the unit which slowed the pulses down and made them audible, mentioned in the above article. I also made a logic probe for it, and spent a lot of time testing microcode assemblies; we called them "banjos".
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 4/2/2010 10:00:40 PM GMT
My bad. Over the years my leaky organic memory confused two separate spacecraft projects. Good-in-garbage-out syndrome.
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May the road rise to meet you; may the sun shine on your back.
May you create something useful, even if it's just a hack.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
humanoido
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For me, the past is not over yet.
all we would need extara would be a papertape reader.
i worked for DEC in the 1970's early 80's.
Agreat company, and great products
Mike
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Style and grace : Nil point
I agree that the PDP11 would be a great addition to the list of emulated computers. There were LSI11's in a lot of the medical imaging systems and analytical instruments I installed and serviced. Adding a paper tape reader would not be a problem. They are very simple ( a motor, a few leds, and 8/9 photo transistors or a linear sensor like the TLS1401 would be enough) and could be built by most if not all of the folks on this forum.
I thought about adding the PDP11 to my suggestions but went for the older PDP8 instead. From what I encountered in service there were an awful lot of embedded PDP8's in machinery of all kinds. The PDP8 was also the first computer I wrote software for that directly controlled hardware ( a driver for an optical paper tape reader ).
One of the first commercial computing machines that was a hybrid of mechanics and electronics was the Olivetti P603. These were interesting. The A5 was big heavy beast of an office machine, and smaller A4 was a bit more refined. The A5 functioned on paper in some engineer's design but could not work reliably in the real world. It had a nest of mechanical parts mixed with electronics and wildly shook the table it sat on when printing.
I also serviced P602/3 computers for the USA and Italy. It was a better machine. The A5 had a mechanical encoder that could never keep up with the electronics. We joked that it could only be serviced by a farm tractor mechanic. I think there was some truth to that. However, it was one of the most fascinating mixes with lots of electromechanics and a built in wide carriage printer. The ball head was similar to the IBM Selectric and it easily jumped timing when the machine began to wear or was new. If you worked in service at that time, you were always busy and totally indispensable to the company. It would be easier to clone the non-printing side of these computers.
humanoido
I found it amazing to watch the CNC machine, that only had a single block operating memory, operate consistently over very long periods of time, running a looped tape, with the ends literally taped together with ordinary scotch tape. That was more robust than I gave it credit for at the time.
It would be very cool to use that media with a Prop [noparse]:)[/noparse]
I remember three kinds too. Blue, non-oil tape, black oil tape, and mylar. The mylar was used for very large programs, because it would not tear, but if it got tangled, it would take a very long time to get it sorted and cleaned. Most common was the black tape with oil, for long runs, low hassle. Blue was cheap, and used for protos.
Just checked in on the cost of a puncher... HOLY Smile!! Those things are not cheap!
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