Prop II capabilities ??
Chris_D
Posts: 305
Hi folks,
Please do not interpret this thread as a "I·want·the·Prop II·now" type of posting.· Rather I am trying to get a handle on the what the new Prop will be able to do better than the current chip.· Not so much as what features it will have, but rather, those new features will alow me to do what things better and faster etc.
For starters, I use the hi-res VGA text object in my CNC control.· This works great, the video output is very stable and clear etc.· The drawback to me is the lack of flexible color support.· I can use colors with the current object, but I can only set the color per line.· I believe this limitation is due to the memory of the Prop I.· With the potential for a LOT more memory on the Prop II, would it possible to do more with colors?
Assuming more memory means more capability with the video, will vector and or bit map graphics capabilities be greatly enhanced and if so, to what extent?
I believe the Prop II will have a hardware multiply.· Am I correct in thinking this would mean a·4 clock cycle result?· Was this going to be a 32 bit multiply or 16 bit?
I recall reading that·the Prop II·will also be much faster, was it 4 times faster?
What other things will the new Prop II be able to do better than the Prop I?·
Thanks
Chris
·
Please do not interpret this thread as a "I·want·the·Prop II·now" type of posting.· Rather I am trying to get a handle on the what the new Prop will be able to do better than the current chip.· Not so much as what features it will have, but rather, those new features will alow me to do what things better and faster etc.
For starters, I use the hi-res VGA text object in my CNC control.· This works great, the video output is very stable and clear etc.· The drawback to me is the lack of flexible color support.· I can use colors with the current object, but I can only set the color per line.· I believe this limitation is due to the memory of the Prop I.· With the potential for a LOT more memory on the Prop II, would it possible to do more with colors?
Assuming more memory means more capability with the video, will vector and or bit map graphics capabilities be greatly enhanced and if so, to what extent?
I believe the Prop II will have a hardware multiply.· Am I correct in thinking this would mean a·4 clock cycle result?· Was this going to be a 32 bit multiply or 16 bit?
I recall reading that·the Prop II·will also be much faster, was it 4 times faster?
What other things will the new Prop II be able to do better than the Prop I?·
Thanks
Chris
·
Comments
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
According to one post by Chip, it will use 4 port memories to allow one clock per instruction.
Also it will run at around 160MHz internally (can't wait for the over-clock hackers to wank on that).
Last we heard, there will be 384KB HUB RAM, a better video generator, COGs similar to Prop1, 8 COGs, and 64 dedicated I/O's in a QFP100.
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Short answers?
Not available since you deserve more information than you requested.
May the road rise to meet you; may the sun shine on your back.
May you create something useful, instead of just another hack.
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
propeller.wikispaces.com/Propeller+II
PLEASE oh kindest of forum administrators, PLEASE just put a sticky thread of ALL Prop II features so that we can end the ENDLESS discussion of a chip that is not even made yet!!!!!
ENJOY THE PROP I AND STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE PROP 2! IF YOU DON'T, THEN YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED WHEN THE PROP II COMES AT LAST!
Micro
P.S. @Chris_D: I am not angered at your thread in particular, just the endless strings of threads like this. Thanks.
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Don't click on this.....
Use the Propeller icon!!
You had better not start ANOTHER PropII thread.
It's really a simple process. If your not interested in a thread , don't read it.
Post Edited (Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)) : 3/21/2010 4:02:31 AM GMT
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Don't click on this.....
Use the Propeller icon!!
You had better not start ANOTHER PropII thread.
I am SO confident that Chip & Co. will do this right.
@all,· For clarification I am more curious as to what the new features will allow us to do that we cannot do now.·
For example, the hub memory may be 256K, but, the COG memory is still limitted to 512 longs.· What is that extra memory going to allow me to do?·
Is it going to allow for higher resolution graphics with more colors?
Will that extra memory in hub allow me to put more code in the COGs?
One of the problems I have already with the Prop I is the amount of code I can put in a COG.· I am sure there are "Tricks" (of which I don't yet understand) to do more in a COG.· Rather than beat my head against the wall trying to get the Prop I to do something it can't, I can wait·till the Prop II is available to·add those features.· The project I am working on has lasted nearly 2 years now so by the time the Prop II comes out, I might still be working on the same project :-)
Chris
The Prop2 is at last 2 years away, if ever. Fabrication problems, layout problems, tweaking final prototypes, etc. I don't know if Parallax can survive as a company that long.
Discussion?
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JMH
Post Edited (Mike Huselton) : 3/21/2010 11:26:29 AM GMT
Wow, that's a gloves off comment.
Parallax has been around a lot of years prior to the Propeller, and with their entrenched position in the educational market I suspect they'd be around a lot longer even if there was no Propeller. Have you any basis for your query?
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You only ever need two tools in life. If it moves and it shouldn't use Duct Tape. If it does not move and it should use WD40.
Correct me if I am wrong.
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JMH
Prediction... When Prop II is delivered, Prop I sales will go up. How's that for a prediction - think about it.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
The 512 instruction COG limit is overcome with LMM and overlays; both fetch and run instructions from HUB. LMM gets one instruction at a time, overlays get code blocks at a time. LMM is far more flexible and in some cases faster. Propeller II COGs/cores will have indirect addressing and QUAD word HUB access. This will allow much faster LMM performance with programs stored in HUB RAM.
Propeller II will enable "Windows-like" GUIs, etc.... It will draw much attention to Parallax and "lift all boats" with the resultant rising tide. Many more complicated applications will be possible with on-chip resources rather than resorting to add-on hardware.
The expected 384KB HUB RAM will allow feature rich programs and higher color resolution VGA without external memory. It will make most of today's external SRAM memory solutions obsolete. There will of course be another batch of external memory solutions for Propeller II since there are many ways to exceed any memory limit.
Propeller I is of course fine for many projects and may be too big for many things.
Propeller II does not exist yet, so we can only dream while Parallax trys to keep our attention.
No doubt there will be an explosion of new hardware solutions hyped here when Propeller II is available.
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Short answers?
Not available since you deserve more information than you requested.
May the road rise to meet you; may the sun shine on your back.
May you create something useful, instead of just another hack.
Thanks for the information concerning the COG memory.· I have not explored any of the LMM stuff so it is all foreign to me.· But it appears as though Prop II will allow me to do more of what I need regarding memory limitations and video limitations.·
@ Mike
Not sure how to take your comments, don't see them as contributing anything of value to the thread.
Chris
1. Have that COG run SPIN. Currently, on Prop I, SPIN runs a few thousand instructions per second. That's likely to go up by as much as an order of magnitude on Prop II.
2. That COG can run PASM. That's your 512 long limit, but overlays can be used to extend that in some cases. The real program is in the COG itself.
3. That COG can run a PASM kernel, that then fetches and runs assembly instructions located in the HUB! The current Prop does this, but it's cumbersome to get kernels that can operate at the highest possible speeds. That should change with Prop II. The real program is in the HUB, operated on by the COG, like SPIN does, but not interpreted like SPIN is, meaning it will run considerably faster than the SPIN, and considerably slower than an assembly program that lives in the COG.
In the third mode, think of a COG operating more like a traditional CPU would out of a shared memory pool. The 512 longs are both the instruction cache, and some "microcode" that defines how the COG will behave in response to the HUB instructions. This then allows very large and very fast programs to run on the chip, without that 512 memory address limitation.
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
8x8 color 80 Column NTSC Text Object
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
That's a bit over the top. Why try discourage people from asking questions? This baffles me .. If you don't like it then don't read it.
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
'Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.'
'Convince a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still.'
·
The product line is diverse and the customer base includes hobby, education and commercial users. When we create new products such as the Prop 2 it's done with planning and budget in mind - we don't operate with credit or debts to investors. We own the building in which we operate and we've made solid investments in our engineering, manufacturing and support that create many years of return.
We're also very conservative and not overly prideful. The money you spend here goes back into our employees, customers and business. This is something that a funded company can't do as easily - they aim to show profit. Private companies do the same, but I'd argue they do a much better job of reinvesting in the business with R&D, equipment, innovation, etc.
Parallax has a positive outlook and you'd certainly feel it inside of our office. Prop 2 will increase the business and give us the ability to produce more products for you.
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Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
Follow me at http://twitter.com/ParallaxKen for some insider news.
Not to start a competition
I stand corrected. Mean spirits are not what I wish for. My comments were out of line.
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JMH
Thanks very much for the memory explanations.· Interestingly, the one thing you mentioned about SPIN running faster also opens up some possibilities for me.·I keep forgetting that as the whole chip runs faster, so does the spin interpreter!
Chris
I have a TurboROM EPROM emulator from Parallax that says (C)1992, but it was bought used over 10 years ago. I still use it, though by now I've pulled almost all the chips out of their sockets to replace them as needed. [noparse]:)[/noparse]