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NEW: USB Propeller Programmer — Parallax Forums

NEW: USB Propeller Programmer

Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
edited 2010-04-02 03:47 in Propeller 1
4433017315_b23132020e.jpg
Project Page

The USBThumb is like a 'Super PropPlug' - out of the bag, it's a USB-Serial converter you can use to program your Prop and works just like a regular PropPlug.

What makes it awesome is that it's built with a PIC18F14K50. Headers on the edge of the USBThumb let you use it in your projects and the integrated bootloader lets you re-program it via USB. Compared to the Prop, it's a pretty simple uController, but it's got some handy tricks;
  • 9 Channel, 10-bit ADC
  • USB 1.0 and 2.0 with libraries for HID, Mass Storage, Audio and more
  • i2c, RS232, RS485
  • Connects directly to the Acc_Gyro 5DOF IMU
  • And a few more - the full datasheet is here (pdf).
Best of all, it's cheaper! It's only $20 when you checkout with coupon code 'thumb'. I'm pretty excited about the USBThumb, it's A Super PropPlug that's cheaper and more flexible. While a PIC will never be as cool as a Prop - it might be cooler than the FTDI.

More info on the Project Page. As usual, let me know if you have any questions!

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Comments

  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2010-03-18 18:16
    Are you using stock windows infs for this? Do you have a well set up install for the inf's ? If so I will commend you on this. I find FTDI stuff highly annoying at times. Just try to walk a non techie through installing an xtend radio package, which uses ftdi chips.
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-18 18:17
    And the hits just keep on coming! Nick, you a busy man!

    Jim
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-18 18:20
    Looks like Starlino has that pretty well documented.

    http://starlino.com/usbthumb_propeller_programmer.html
    Erik Friesen said...
    Are you using stock windows infs for this? Do you have a well set up install for the inf's ? If so I will commend you on this. I find FTDI stuff highly annoying at times. Just try to walk a non techie through installing an xtend radio package, which uses ftdi chips.
  • kf4ixmkf4ixm Posts: 529
    edited 2010-03-18 18:20
    Cool!
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-03-18 18:29
    AAARRGGGHHH!!!!!!

    Well done Nick & starlino!

    You beat me out the door with a PIC18F14K50 solution! I have two of the Microchip DM164127 kits beside me, and a USB Plug based on it is (was?) on my TODO list...
    Nick McClick said...
    4433017315_b23132020e.jpg
    Project Page

    The USBThumb is like a 'Super PropPlug' - out of the bag, it's a USB-Serial converter you can use to program your Prop and works just like a regular PropPlug.

    What makes it awesome is that it's built with a PIC18F14K50. Headers on the edge of the USBThumb let you use it in your projects and the integrated bootloader lets you re-program it via USB. Compared to the Prop, it's a pretty simple uController, but it's got some handy tricks;
    • 9 Channel, 10-bit ADC
    • USB 1.0 and 2.0 with libraries for HID, Mass Storage, Audio and more
    • i2c, RS232, RS485
    • Connects directly to the Acc_Gyro 5DOF IMU
    • And a few more - the full datasheet is here (pdf).
    Best of all, it's cheaper! It's only $20 when you checkout with coupon code 'thumb'. I'm pretty excited about the USBThumb, it's A Super PropPlug that's cheaper and more flexible. While a PIC will never be as cool as a Prop - it might be cooler than the FTDI.

    More info on the Project Page. As usual, let me know if you have any questions!
    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
    Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
    Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
    Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system

    Post Edited (Bill Henning) : 3/18/2010 6:38:40 PM GMT
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-18 18:57
    @Erik - For mac & linux, drivers should be stock. For windows, you'll need this, but it's straightforward & the driver is signed.

    @hover - more documentation come shortly, too. Schematic should be up in a bit.

    Sorry Bill! I know Starlino has been working on this little guy for a few months. He's also been working on a few backpacks for the USBThumb.

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  • MagIO2MagIO2 Posts: 2,243
    edited 2010-03-18 19:13
    Interesting ...

    But I'd rather see it having a female micro USB instead of the USB plug. If you include the PIC into the design you'd fix it to the propeller PCB.

    What's the data-rate for USB to serial?
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-03-18 19:13
    No worries! I have plenty of products in the pipeline!

    Fortunately I have not sent in the proto's yet.
    Nick McClick said...
    @Erik - For mac & linux, drivers should be stock. For windows, you'll need this, but it's straightforward & the driver is signed.

    @hover - more documentation come shortly, too. Schematic should be up in a bit.

    Sorry Bill! I know Starlino has been working on this little guy for a few months. He's also been working on a few backpacks for the USBThumb.
    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
    Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
    Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
    Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-03-18 19:23
    Nicely done smile.gif I note the chip is available in DIP from DigiKey.

    Maybe there are other uses to add USB functionality to the prop smile.gif

    I wonder if it could be made a USB host for simple USB devices like memory sticks???

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
    · Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2010-03-18 19:39
    That PIC doesn't have USB host capability, one of the USB OTG devices would be needed.

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  • BigFootBigFoot Posts: 259
    edited 2010-03-18 19:47
    Nice Job,

    Another problem with the FTDI chips is there driver. We tried using the RTS & DTR signal out of there chip's to trigger the
    boot loader on our board.

    The problem is that every time someone plugs another USB device into the PC it sends out a pulse that resets our propeller.
    This was very annoying for our customers and we had to put a firmware update shunt in the system.

    Russ
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2010-03-18 20:06
    Can it be used to load multiple props without a computer for each? Or just works the same as prop plug

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    If you have not already. Add yourself to the prophead map
  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-03-18 20:16
    I have 10+ dip PIC18F14K50's in a box next to me... the version I was working on was a DIP based kit / a&t unit.
    Cluso99 said...
    Nicely done smile.gif I note the chip is available in DIP from DigiKey.

    Maybe there are other uses to add USB functionality to the prop smile.gif

    I wonder if it could be made a USB host for simple USB devices like memory sticks???
    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
    Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
    Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
    Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-18 20:29
    @MAGio, USB - Serial speed is 115200bps.

    PIC18F doesn't have USB OTG, but sample libraries are available (here) for:
    USB Device - Audio - (Microphone, MIDI, Speaker)
    USB Device - Bootloaders
    USB Device - CDC - Serial Emulator
    USB Device - Composite - HID + MSD
    USB Device - Composite - MSD + CDC
    USB Device - Composite - WinUSB + MSD
    USB Device - HID - (Digitizers, Joystick, Keyboard, Mouser)
    USB Device - HID - Uninterruptible Power Supply
    USB Device - LibUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - Mass Storage - (Internal Flash, SD Card)
    USB Device - MCHPUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - WinUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - WinUSB - High Bandwidth Demo

    @mctrivia, I'm sure the USBThumb could be programmed to write to a Prop w/o a computer. It comes pre-programmed to act like a PropPlug, but you can update the firmware via usb.

    @Bill I like the dip packages! Starlino uses a DIP 18F14K50 in his motion gamepad. We wanted the USBThumb to be small and pocket-able, so we did SMT on these, but the dip's work great.

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  • Bill HenningBill Henning Posts: 6,445
    edited 2010-03-18 20:43
    I love DIP's for three reasons:

    1) Easy prototyping on solderless breadboards
    2) Easy to assemble kits
    3) Easy to replace chips if needed

    But for small size... SMT can't be beat.

    That's a nice motion pad! Starlino did good [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    Nick McClick said...
    @MAGio, USB - Serial speed is 115200bps.

    PIC18F doesn't have USB OTG, but sample libraries are available (here) for:
    USB Device - Audio - (Microphone, MIDI, Speaker)
    USB Device - Bootloaders
    USB Device - CDC - Serial Emulator
    USB Device - Composite - HID + MSD
    USB Device - Composite - MSD + CDC
    USB Device - Composite - WinUSB + MSD
    USB Device - HID - (Digitizers, Joystick, Keyboard, Mouser)
    USB Device - HID - Uninterruptible Power Supply
    USB Device - LibUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - Mass Storage - (Internal Flash, SD Card)
    USB Device - MCHPUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - WinUSB - Generic Driver Demo
    USB Device - WinUSB - High Bandwidth Demo

    @mctrivia, I'm sure the USBThumb could be programmed to write to a Prop w/o a computer. It comes pre-programmed to act like a PropPlug, but you can update the firmware via usb.

    @Bill I like the dip packages! Starlino uses a DIP 18F14K50 in his motion gamepad. We wanted the USBThumb to be small and pocket-able, so we did SMT on these, but the dip's work great.
    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
    Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
    Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
    Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
  • MagIO2MagIO2 Posts: 2,243
    edited 2010-03-18 21:08
    Interesting ... the PIC can do 12Mb/s via USB and 16Mb/s via SPI (@64Mhz) ... So a faster communication should be possible ... I'd really like to have a ~8Mb/s USB connection to the PC for a project I have in mind.

    What's the clock frequency of the USBthumb?

    What's the limit for SPI on the propeller?
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-18 21:18
    Schematic's coming up, but it's connected to a 12Mhz Xtal. Here's the datasheet.

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  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,717
    edited 2010-03-19 00:42
    Starlino and Nick, congrats on a very neat design. I really like the approach of having it operate like a standard prop plug out of the box

    Some more questions...
    1) Is there a bigger pic in the same series/footprint that could buffer an entire prop image for computer independent programming (like the pickit2 does). We could easily add buttons/leds along the side
    2) In the next rev, could we please have a 5th pin to carry the Vdd bus through to the prop circuit, similar to what 4D's CE5 or Bill's SerPlug does? This would also permit the Usbthumb to be powered for ADC operations after USB is disconnected.

    well done...
    tubular

    Post Edited (Tubular) : 3/19/2010 2:13:51 AM GMT
  • AribaAriba Posts: 2,690
    edited 2010-03-19 07:59
    Seems I was not the only one that worked on that [noparse];)[/noparse]

    I have made 2 prototypes a half year ago (see pictures) one is all thru hole.
    The problem was that it worked well with older PropTools, BST and my PropTerminal Loader, but the newer
    PropTools always lost connection with bigger files when downloading. So I decided to not release it until the
    reason was found.
    I have to read Starlinos docs to see if he use another driver then the original Microsoft-CDC in XP.

    @Tubular
    There are many other PICs with USB (also OTG) and more memory. The PIC18F46J50 has 64kByte Flash, enough to
    replace also the EEPROM for a Propeller, but has 28 Pins.
    As you see I have the 5V Pin in my design, very useful! And I also supply 3.3V back from the PropBoard to the PIC
    to keep the PIC alive, when no USB is connected.

    Andy

    attachment.php?attachmentid=68736
    546 x 379 - 17K
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-03-19 09:07
    Nice Ariba. The thru hole is nifty for anyone to solder up. Did you consider using the mini USB t/hole connector on it? Everyone has these cables for cameras and phones these days.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
    · Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,717
    edited 2010-03-19 10:15
    Andy,
    Really good job on your programmer too. Even the through hole one looks very compact.

    It's amazing what "almost finished" projects are out there, and the minor things that stop them from being fully released. I almost fell off my chair when I saw your puzzle board posted somewhere here, having worked on an almost identical board for digilent style modules. We must swap notes some time.

    cheers
    tubular
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2010-03-19 12:08
    Nick, I don't see the ICSP on there, I assume it is somewhere on the back side, or you have it configured on some of holes on front?
  • AribaAriba Posts: 2,690
    edited 2010-03-19 12:16
    Cluso
    I have chosen the full size USB-B socket because they are easier to solder than the Mini B thru hole. But perhaps I can
    have both options on a final version.

    Tubular
    The 6 free pins on the thru hole version are for a Digilent style connector, and support ADC inputs smile.gif
    The "minor thing" that it don't work with newer PropellerTools was not the only reason to wait with releasing. I also need
    to make a PIC firmware which allows the access of the PIC pins and ADCs from the Propeller side via serial connection.
    The PIC can also provide some other functions like an SDcard booter, a Watchdog, unique serial number for code protection,
    or maybe an RTC.
    I have a lot of unfinished projects and boards, so the chance that you really fall off your chair some day is high....

    Andy
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-03-19 16:14
    The Digilent style connector is a nice feature. I like this pinout because of the many cheap modules around and the fact most FPGA kits use this connector for at least some expansion.

    Andy: The throughhole mini usb is WM17115-ND from DigiKey. Both options would be excellent. Also add links to allow the USB to power the prop, and the prop to power the PIC. I have had the same ideas of using a micro (MC9S08...) to load the prop from it's own inernal flash. It reduces the prop costs, but does create some incompatability. I have designed my RamBlade to do this, but as yet have not programmed the MCRS08..

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
    · Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-19 19:54
    @Tubular - yeah, there are bigger PIC's. But the design goal was to offer something cheaper than the Prop Plug that does more and comes ready-to-go. But the USBThumb is extensible, it's pretty easy to read from a SD Card and write that to an EEPROM

    @Erik - all of the PIC connections are broken out on the edges, including ICSP, Vin and V33 (there's an onboard Vreg). They're labeled on both sides, too:
    4433949585_2df8643792.jpg

    @ariba - nice looking design!

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  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2010-03-19 20:24
    Nick: It's a really nice board with numerous extra features above the propplug and cheaper. I like the clear pin labelling too. It will have more markets than just the prop.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Links to other interesting threads:

    · Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
    · Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
    · Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
    · Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
    · Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
    My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
  • MagIO2MagIO2 Posts: 2,243
    edited 2010-03-20 22:01
    Let's see how long delivery to germany takes this time ;o)

    BTW ... today I tried to run ViewPort with the Silicon Labs USB2Serial device that I use to program the propellers. Had no luck with that. Will ViewPort work with the USBthumb?
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-22 19:38
    Starlino just put up the firmware upgrade guide. Looks pretty easy, although you still need to know how to program a PIC if you want to run your own firmware (or just use the demo libraries).

    @MagIO - if you ordered via airmail, it usually takes 7-14 days, but it can get snagged in customs (seems like it happens with 5% of international orders). Customs can hold it for a while - sometimes just a few extra days, but occasionally longer. You can't beat the price for airmail, it's just $6. We also offer EMS - that's trackable and takes 3-5 days, but it's $30.

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  • MagIO2MagIO2 Posts: 2,243
    edited 2010-03-22 21:06
    Thanks Nick,·for answering my rhetorical part of the post ;o) I already ordered propeller boards a few months ago, so I know how long it can take.I'm very patient .. 20 years ago when I ordered parts it took 4 weeks within the same country.

    The more interesting part of the post is: does USBthumb work with ViewPort? I found out that ViewPort does not work with my current setup even if I switch to 115kb/sec and that's a speed the Silicon Labs USB2serial supports.

    Post Edited (MagIO2) : 3/22/2010 9:30:51 PM GMT
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2010-03-22 22:22
    Ha! I forgot about the other half -

    I haven't tested it with ViewPort, so I can't say - I bet it will work fine, but I'll give it a whirl tonight and report back on the results.

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