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Going from BS to Propeller — Parallax Forums

Going from BS to Propeller

NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
edited 2010-03-08 02:16 in Propeller 1
I am considering getting involved with the Propeller but I have a few questions. First, Other than speed, what are the major differences between the prop and Basic Stamps? Basic Stamps seem to have tons of add ons, such as ping sensors, bluetoote, etc, etc. Is the prop capable of supporting these devices? Is it possible to use PINK? I have several items for the Basic Stamp. and it would be nic to be able to use them if I decide to delve in to the prop. Thanks for any assistance.



Post Edited (NWCCTV) : 3/2/2010 6:48:26 AM GMT

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-03-02 06:26
    1) The Propeller contains 8 independent fast 32-bit processors. Spin is more sophisticated than PBasic, but doesn't have the rich set of built-in statements (mostly for I/O). The same functionality is accomplished with collections of library subroutines called objects.

    2) Most of the Stamp add-ons have corresponding objects available from the Propeller Object Exchange or more general objects are used (like SERIN / SEROUT equivalents).

    3) Almost all of the existing Stamp peripherals can be used with the Propeller. Sometimes you have to use a little interface hardware because of the voltage difference (5V logic vs. 3.3V logic), but often this is just a resistor, often 2.2K. Some of the Propeller boards have built-in 3.3V to 5V conversion hardware.

    4) The Propeller can use the PINK. It can also act as a server by itself. Look at the YBox2 (www.ladyada.net/make/ybox2/).

    5) The Propeller can generate TV or VGA video directly (with a few resistors) and can use a PS/2 keyboard directly. A small TV is quite handy for debugging purposes. There's a TV text driver (object) that uses one I/O pin with a 270 Ohm resistor in series (see the Object Exchange).
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2010-03-02 06:33
    The answer is "yes" to all of the above... and no interrupts. ++ The Spin language... which is unbelievably strong and a breeze to learn. In built multitasking and multi-processing. ++Simple direct object oriented programming...

    The Prop group is sometimes a step behind on new technologies. On the other hand, they are using what is available in new ways that will be very impotant down the road. Many times you will find that the bleeding edge of development is still in the Basic Stamp community. The lead lag seems to be a few months at this point, but it is significant if you are in a competitive situation. So, what you already know is a bonus, and will make you strong over here.

    The future belongs to the Prop... so you will need to migrate. But it really isn't an either or situation... straddle both communities and take the best from both.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-02 06:50
    OK, I think I may make the switch, as the video output is just what I need for an idea I have.·One last question,··Why does Parallax not carry·the Parallax·Propellar P8X32 Basic Stsmp Education Board?·I am finding them on the Interent, but not in Parallax's store.
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-02 13:09
    If you are talking about the one on ebay, that board is made by a company in Thailand and has no ties to Parallax.
    Jim
    NWCCTV said...
    ·Why does Parallax not carry·the Parallax·Propellar P8X32 Basic Stsmp Education Board?·I am finding them on the Interent, but not in Parallax's store.
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-02 21:38
    Yes, I am talking about one on EBay. Please look at this link. It shows the Parallax Chip on it and states it is programmed in Spin. Will it work?





    http://cgi.ebay.com/Parallax-Propeller-P8X32-RS232-Board-BASIC-Stamp-160MIP_W0QQitemZ290403354356QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439d6386f4
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-03-02 22:39
    The board on eBay looks like it is similar to a Demo Board but without a USB connection. Some boards (the eBay one included) require the use of a Prop Plug. I like the Demo Board a lot. It has most of the common hardware one would use with a Propeller chip so it’s easy to test out various object in the library or from the OBEX.

    I started using the Propeller soon after getting started with the Basic Stamp 2. The BS2 was a bit easier to learn than the Propeller but I soon saw how much more powerful the Propeller was. It’s like being able to have seven large·subroutines always running (in separate cogs) so it doesn’t slow down the main program. It’s so fun! I use Propeller chips every day with my work as a chemistry consultant. I use them to control the temperature of a drying oven and (the main use) to log the data from the various instruments in my lab.

    The thing I missed the most about the BS2 is the serial in and out. With the Propeller, you have to use an object to communicate with the computer but it didn’t take long until this was second nature (it’s not hard). I haven’t used a BS2 for almost two years, while I program on a Propeller almost every day.

    My latest attempt to use a Propeller with my work is to program a robot arm to pick up a sample, place it·on the balance,·record the·weight, remove the sample and pick up the next sample of a row samples and countinue wieghing samples untill they have all been weighed. Did I mention this stuff is fun?

    Duane
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-02 23:05
    Yes, it can be programed in Spin.

    I quoted that auction in my last post, but the blue highlite does not show up·very well on the forum page. It will work, but you will need a USB2Serial device to program it unless you have a serial port on your computer or laptop. And then a serial cable would work for programing. The PropPlug cited in the other post will not work for this board.

    The Propeller Starter Kit is $99.00 and comes with the official Parallax Demo Board and Manual. The ebay item has a schematic somewhere, but I don't see it on the auction. They point all support back to Parallax pages. Doesn't that say somthing? It doesn't seem like they have any support for thier product.

    Bottom line is the auction may seem like a good price, and it may be a quality item, but, I my opinion, ·you are better of going with the original manufacturer to get the the official demo board and manual. Most of the objects written for the OBEX and items on the forums are written for the demo board. It will make the transition very quick·and easy.

    My .02

    Jim
    NWCCTV said...

    Yes, I am talking about one on EBay. Please look at this link. It shows the Parallax Chip on it and states it is programmed in Spin. Will it work?





    http://cgi.ebay.com/Parallax-Propeller-P8X32-RS232-Board-BASIC-Stamp-160MIP_W0QQitemZ290403354356QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439d6386f4
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-03-03 00:13
    Jim is correct. I thought the RS-232 connector was a VGA connector. There is a set of header pins in the top left corner I thought was a place to use a Prop Plug. On closer inspection it looks like it has five pins. Anyone know what it is for?

    Duane
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-03 00:31
    Thanks everyone for the clarification. When I looked st the demo board I did not see the VGA or PS2 ports. Am I missing something?

    Never mind. I must have been looking at the wrong thing. Does the Spin programmer come with the Starter Kit? Also, Other than a power supply, is there anything else I need to purchase?

    Post Edited (NWCCTV) : 3/3/2010 12:45:53 AM GMT
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-03 01:15
    Duane, What do you mean by "You have to use an object to communicate with the computer"? I thought that is what the USB cable is for. What am I not getting?
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-03 01:56
    All the programming tools are available free of charge from Parallax.·A great deal·of information can be found here:

    http://www.parallax.com/Resources/ResourcesHome/tabid/473/Default.aspx

    Propeller downloads including the Propeller IDE, (Spin Programmer), can be found here:

    http://www.parallax.com/tabid/832/Default.aspx
    NWCCTV said...
    Thanks everyone for the clarification. When I looked st the demo board I did not see the VGA or PS2 ports. Am I missing something?

    Never mind. I must have been looking at the wrong thing. Does the Spin programmer come with the Starter Kit? Also, Other than a power supply, is there anything else I need to purchase?
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-03 02:04
    After doing a bit of research, I am wondering if making the switch will pay off. Is there a way to communicate to the Prop via MS Studio 2008 such as there is with the Basic Stamp? I have spent a whole lot of time working on that and programming in C and in VB to communicate with my BoeBot. I do not really want to spend months re learning all of that. Also, it took some time for me to get stepper motors to work with the BS2 and BS2SX and then through VB and C also. In short, life is short and I would like to finish a project one of these days!!!! Can anyone clarify this for me?
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-03 02:15
    What is the "Propeller Tool"
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2010-03-03 02:19
    NWCCTV said...
    What is the "Propeller Tool"

    www.lmgtfy.com/?q=Parallax+Propeller+Tool

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    You only ever need two tools in life. If it moves and it shouldn't use Duct Tape. If it does not move and it should use WD40.
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2010-03-03 02:19
    Propeller tool is the IDE for the propeller. I don't think you can use any other IDE such as MS studio to program the prop...

    I got into the prop last february so I could win a penguin robot from Gadget Gangster. This "forced" me to learn the prop in a very short amount of time, even though I had only worked with the BS2 before then. If only I had learned about the prop before then.... [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    Good luck with your future propeller endeavors!

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    Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

    (no longer new) SD Card Adapter·Now available!· Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2010-03-03 02:22
    BradC,

    Very nice link--I MUST use that more often.... smile.gif

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

    (no longer new) SD Card Adapter·Now available!· Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!
  • hover1hover1 Posts: 1,929
    edited 2010-03-03 02:47
    There are many serial communication programs in the OBEX. In addition there is the BS2 Function Object·that will make the transition from BS2 to Propeller easy.
    Another new addition is the PropBasic Compiler. You can program in Basic and output Propeller Assembley code. It's very cool.
    Propeller Tool..Think Basic Stamp Editor.
    Jim
    NWCCTV said...

    After doing a bit of research, I am wondering if making the switch will pay off. Is there a way to communicate to the Prop via MS Studio 2008 such as there is with the Basic Stamp? I have spent a whole lot of time working on that and programming in C and in VB to communicate with my BoeBot. I do not really want to spend months re learning all of that. Also, it took some time for me to get stepper motors to work with the BS2 and BS2SX and then through VB and C also. In short, life is short and I would like to finish a project one of these days!!!! Can anyone clarify this for me?



  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-03-03 04:37
    NWCCTV - I see you’ve used C to program with. Spin as a lot in common with C. At first the differences bugged me and then I quickly saw how much better it is. Most programmer indent loops and if statements. Spin uses the indentation as part of the syntax. It actually makes code easier to read. No more worrying about misplaced semicolons! All that you’ve learned with C and VB will carry over in using the Propeller since it’s on the computer side and it won’t make a difference if the information is coming from a BS2 or a Propeller.

    An object is similar to an include file in C. It’s software that make tasks easier to program since you can other peoples’ code easily. For serial communication the common object is FullDuplexSerial. You can read about in PELabsFunBook-v1.1.pdf (the blue text is a link to page where it will download). Read about it on page 100. If you think a Boe-Bot is cool with a BS2 you should see what it can do with a Propeller. I’ve had my Prop-Boe-Bot controlled via a R/C radio. The receiver was on the Prop-Boe-Bot with the Propeller chip receiving the PWM signals from all seven channels and processing to drive the servos, LED, etc. I’ve also controlled the Prop-Boe-Bot with a Wii Nunchuck both wired directly and with the Nunchuck signal being broadcast with the same RC transmitter used above. This required a second Propeller chip to decode the Nunchuck and convert the signal to mimic the signal that comes through a trainer cord on a normal RC transmitter. Just try to do something like that with a BS2. No way! Parallax has great educational material and this forum has taught me everything else I wanted to know about the Propeller.

    I usually don’t post very often. I usually just read previous answers since most of the questions I’ve had have been asked before and answered very well by the forum members. I’m amazed how helpful these guys are.

    Another note about the Prop-Boe-Bot. A Propeller Protoboard is the same size as the BS2 board on the Boe-Bot. I soldered female headers on the bottom of the Protoboard and attached half of a normal size bread board on the bottom also. I had the headers aligned with the edges of the breadboard like similar to the way they are on a BS2 board. On the top side of the board a solder a wire from each pin to a header. I also labeled the headers so I can see which header corresponds to which pin. Make sure you sandwich a durable layer of insulation between the Protoboard and the breadboard. I used sections of popsicle sticks to provide a level surface to which I could attach the breadboard. I then attached the Protoboard upside down onto the Boe-Bot. I know I’m not the only (nor the first) to use a Propeller with the Boe-Bot. (But I did come up with it independently; it is just begging to be done.) Anyway, you don’t have to switch to the Propeller. But it’s the only way to be a cool geek.

    Duane
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-03 04:47
    Thanks, Duane. Any and all info certainly helps, and I can see from just browsing through the forums what great support there is here. I am thinking of starting with the Prop Starter Kit first and go from there. Hoping to be able to trade away some of my items I am doubled up on. I got a screaming deal at an estate sale on several in the package Parallax items.

    I do have one question, which is a bit of a concern since the project I am currently working on requires a LAN adapter. How easy is it to integrate the Hydra board with the Prop Board? Or, is it possible to use the EtherX with just the Prop board? My project consists of being able to use the HydraX possibly as a POE device and be able to communicate with IP devices. I am not even sure if this is doable at all with Parallax products, but am investigating the idea.
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-03-03 15:52
    I haven’t used the Hyra board (yet) nor have tried communicating with IP devices (yet). I’d be surprised if it’s not doable with the Propeller. Make sure and check out the link Mike Green gave about the YBox2. Of course the Propeller has it’s limits. Some applications may require a small computer like a BeagleBoard (which I have also yet to use).

    Good luck,

    Duane
  • lockadoclockadoc Posts: 115
    edited 2010-03-04 06:58
    I started with the BOE BOT then got the devlopers board,I came up a project that the stamp just could not handle.Than got the propeller education kit. That was the best move I made. It has a higher learning curve, but can do so much more.




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    Life is fun with a Prop.



    BillS
    ··· Louisville KY.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2010-03-07 18:36
    · I made the jump from BS2 to the propeller. I started off with the PE Kit. I am a student of all these seasoned programmers. I stuck my BS2P in a drawer. Spin is Pbasic unchained.


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    PropellerHead

  • TappermanTapperman Posts: 319
    edited 2010-03-07 19:30
    lardom said...
    · I made the jump from BS2 to the propeller. I started off with the PE Kit. I am a student of all these seasoned programmers. I stuck my BS2P in a drawer. Spin is Pbasic unchained.··


    So did I ... and my BS2 is in a drawer as well ... although, I'm trying to get my son interested in the stamp?
  • NWCCTVNWCCTV Posts: 3,629
    edited 2010-03-07 19:49
    I think the learning curve is what bugs me the most. Not getting any younger, and my ADD sometimes gets the best of me and I move on.

    Anyhow, I was thinking of getting the Starter Kit. Is there anything else I would need if I went that route instead of the PE?

    Duane, That BeagleBoard looks pretty awesome. Anyone here ever use it for anything? I would like to get more input about it.
  • JomsJoms Posts: 279
    edited 2010-03-07 20:00
    NWCCTV: A few years ago I started using the Prop while I was still using the stamp. The hardest part for me was after I started using the prop and then went back to the stamp, I felt so limited. Plus, I too am having extream problems with my ADD function and trying to do two different programming languages just wasn't working.

    I switched completely to the prop now and loving it. Yes, it is a little bit more complicated as far as needing a crystal, 3.3 volt instead of 5, external EEPROM, but it is well worth the extra work.

    I actually ordered the Propeller Education Kit, basically just the parts and a breadboard. I actually like that a little more so on larger projects I am not limited on I/O pins going to PS2 connectors and things I rarely use....
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-03-07 20:05
    The only thing you'll need other than the Starter Kit is a power source. Anything that supplies 6-9V to a standard 5.5mm/2.1mm power plug (center positive) at a few hundred mA will work. I've used a 6V 1.8A and 7.5V 1A "wall wart" and a 6V AA alkaline battery pack with great success.

    Oh yes, you'll need some kind of PC with a USB port. The Propeller Tool only runs under Windows, but BST is a free 3rd party development system (editor / Spin compiler / assembler / downloader) that runs under Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2010-03-07 20:10
    You might also consider the Propeller Backpack. Out of the box, and without any Propeller programming, it provides BASIC Stamp users with video output to an NTSC monitor. You can also program it yourself, of course, whenever you feel ready. Although it includes a header for the Prop Plug, you don't need one to program it, since programs can also be uploaded via your BASIC Stamp by using the free loader program. The Backpack also serves as a one-socket motherboard that accommodates Parallax's family of MoBoStamp-pe compatible daugherboards.

    For BASIC Stamp users, the Backpack may well be an easy-to-swallow "gateway drug" to hard core Propeller use. smile.gif

    -Phil
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2010-03-08 02:16
    NWCCTV - In an earlier post you asked:
    NWCCTV said...
    Or, is it possible to use the EtherX with just the Prop board? My project consists of being able to use the HydraX possibly as a POE device and be able to communicate with IP devices.
    I've been reading Programming and Customizing the Multicore Propeller Microcontroller.· Chapter 8 is titled "Using Multicore for Networking Applications."· It explains a lot about using·Hydra and EtherX to implement network applications.· Too cool!

    Duane
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