New Propeller Dev Board
omgitsaliv55
Posts: 24
Hello,
I am a student working on an electronics project, and am using the Propeller as my main controller.
I have developed a development board for my project that provides an easy plug and play interface to a 20X4 character LCD screen, a numeric keypad, and an SD card slot. It also has an expansion port for connecting other devices of the developer's choice (using up to 8 I/O pins). The board uses a standard DC barrel power connector allowing it to be powered from batteries or a wall supply. The board is only 2.5" X 3.8", and would fit nicely in many projects.
Recently I've been running low on money, and am looking for new ways to make money while still having time to work on the project. I had the thought that I might be able to sell these boards for a small profit given the fact that many Propeller developers incorporate character LCD screens, SD card interfaces, etc. into their projects. If I were to sell a kit that included this board, an LCD screen, keypad, and power supply, would there be a market for something like this? I would need to sell it at around $80 dollars + shipping to make money. Please be honest, because I would be investing my own time and money into the production of it and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars in start up costs to find out that nobody wants to buy it.
I've attached some images of my first prototype board to this post. There is also a picture of it connected to the display and keypad.
Thanks in advance for any and all responses,
Patrick
I am a student working on an electronics project, and am using the Propeller as my main controller.
I have developed a development board for my project that provides an easy plug and play interface to a 20X4 character LCD screen, a numeric keypad, and an SD card slot. It also has an expansion port for connecting other devices of the developer's choice (using up to 8 I/O pins). The board uses a standard DC barrel power connector allowing it to be powered from batteries or a wall supply. The board is only 2.5" X 3.8", and would fit nicely in many projects.
Recently I've been running low on money, and am looking for new ways to make money while still having time to work on the project. I had the thought that I might be able to sell these boards for a small profit given the fact that many Propeller developers incorporate character LCD screens, SD card interfaces, etc. into their projects. If I were to sell a kit that included this board, an LCD screen, keypad, and power supply, would there be a market for something like this? I would need to sell it at around $80 dollars + shipping to make money. Please be honest, because I would be investing my own time and money into the production of it and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars in start up costs to find out that nobody wants to buy it.
I've attached some images of my first prototype board to this post. There is also a picture of it connected to the display and keypad.
Thanks in advance for any and all responses,
Patrick
1280 x 960 - 353K
1280 x 960 - 319K
Comments
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 2/28/2010 10:25:19 PM GMT
omgitsaliv55 all I can tell you is while I do not know what your profit margin is maybe you could lower the price on your prop board and offer the other parts as options this way it would be more affordable for people/hobbyists that could buy your prop board and then the other additions as money permits. If you read through the posts you will see a lot of us even buy the bare boards and populate them ourselves over time, Does this save money ? No but it lets people get into the game quickly and build up as they can afford.
Look at the prop proto board 30 bucks and its a very big bang for your money .. I think your product looks great its a very good board ... Try posting it both ways complete and as a kit with options and see what happens, I would also suggest and I hope they don't mind me saying asking the other guys that are selling kits and see what tips they can give you,, I would think one of the important factors would be a good product and I really think you have that in your design. Good Luck
If you're playing the Parallax market, people appear to pay up a little for some reason. If you're competing in another market, people might not get it ... there are other examples with a full color 4+ inch TFT LCD and lots of other goodies for about $80. Your price is fair considering the number of dev boards in the Parallax store that are listed between $50 and $100 without a 4 line character LCD and SDCARD slot.
1. You should have mounting holes in the corners. So you can screw some distance bolts to the board and have a good stand.
2. Why is the display across the board? Place the connectors so that the display fits on top of the board. Matching the mounting holes would be perfect - or add another set of holes for the display.
3. Where's the connector for a prop-clip?
4. There should be more than 8 I/Os available. EEPROM, SD card and display use buses, so you could attach more devices to that pins.
5. Guess your keypad needs 8 I/Os. Why not use a PC keyboard instead? That only needs 2 pins and most customers would already have it at home.
6. Please ... redo the routing ... I would not buy that board just because of that routing! It already looks like being developed by a beginner.
7. Reset button?
You should have a look at other simple boards and learn: http://www.gadgetgangster.com/find-a-project/56.html?projectnum=168
Gadgetgangster would propably be a good business-partner for you?!
Post Edited (MagIO2) : 2/28/2010 11:24:55 PM GMT
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 3/1/2010 12:00:19 AM GMT
Don't be discouraged. The other posters make valid points (albeit rather too brusquely IMO), but it's not the end of the world, and you can fix the issues they point out. I went through ten revisions on a board once before I got it right, and I learned something new with each one. The only thing I might add to the other comments is this: When you take a picture of a board you want to sell — or any time for that matter — make sure to clean the flux off first. A toothbrush and 99% isopropyl alcohol can do wonders toward a nice presentation.
Good luck with your school project!
-Phil
but just remember we all have different levels of experience and the fact that he asked for help and stated he was student should tell you where his level of experience is .. sometimes in an effort to help out someone with technical advice we can forget
that the person asking is often very proud of what they have built and while they want help they still might feel there design is quite good and only needs a few little tweaks. So I could see someone being insulted because they would feel defensive of there "baby" if you will
So please keep that in mind because I am sure you are just trying to help him effectively correct any flaws in his design.
Good point Phil I must have been posting at the exact same time I did not see your post until after I hit send... I am often in a big hurry to post pictures of something I am doing and never give presentation a thought I just figure if it doesn't matter to me
why would anyone else care but you are right if we are trying to sell something it would make sense to have it shine and sparkle lol
Post Edited (mikediv) : 3/1/2010 12:21:40 AM GMT
I second the advice to take a look at GadgetGangster and perhaps coordinate with Nick.
You'll find him a value resource for marketing your propeller projects.
I'm not sure I'd play $80.00 personally for the unit, but I love the idea and don't see
any reason why you shouldn't move forward with your design.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
www.leonheller.com/Propeller/Proto.gif
The PCB was home-made in the kitchen sink. The OP might learn something from it.
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 3/1/2010 12:23:58 AM GMT
Quite an unpleasant way to put your point across as usual. I don't know why you feel it necessary to be like this, you are not impressing anyone.
Graham
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 3/1/2010 12:34:08 AM GMT
" I'm surprised that he got it to do anything. I wouldn't pay $5 for it!"
Yep that's constructive.
There is a difference between being honest and being unpleasant.
Graham
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
You're a superb engineer. No one here would ever dispute that. But, in the unlikely chance you might ever be so inclined, I would recommend against seeking a position with Her Majesty's Diplomatic Service. You might consider Simon Cowell's position with American Idol, though, which will be open next year.
-Phil
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 3/1/2010 1:46:22 AM GMT
Edit: Didn't see your post. Agreed, you can be quite harsh! It can be constructive though.
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PG
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
humanoido
I think with this thread you will learn a lot more than you can learn at school/university!
So, lesson one: Continue!
As a student it's time to get familiar with real life ;o) In your job you have a good chance to work with people which WILL tell you the truth because there each mistake costs money. And there you'll definitely find people of all possible kinds. Lesson two: learn to handle different people and don't let yourself being discouraged!
(by the way that's never my goal - and I think it's not leons goal as well)
Lesson three: If you start something new, you should be informed much better - at least if you want to make it a business.
Looking at the photo I'd bet my mother in law that you never read a single line about PCB design. You simply jumped into the cold water. That's a learning by doing approach, or rather a trial and error approach. This approach is also valid and commonly used in science - but it's only necessary where you really work in a new area - in an area where simply no knowledge is available. But with the internet it's easier as ever before to learn from mistakes done by other people!
By the way ... finding and digesting information very fast is the real goal of studying ... a lot of the things you learn will be useless in future ... being able to learn the basics of a new subject in a short time is the mayor thing!!
@humanoido:
Nice words. But my feeling is that humans in terms of evolution are generally still closer to apes than to what you describe ;o)
But what's up guys? This is the Internet, it's a rough old place. Much like real life. The criticism may have been harshly put but importantly in came with a lot of useful suggestions. Rather like my school teachers back in the day.
So suck up the advice, rework the board if you still feel it's worth it, boldly move on to bigger things.
Oh, next time, clean up the board, no finger prints in the picture, and keep your fingers out of the picture [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Good luck.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Seems like a fair price, i suggest: go for it!. setup a webpage where you can sell your stuf.
·
Heatsink for the voltage regulators! So you should have a copper area beneath the regulators and a hole for a screw.
Or use step down converters.
PS: Ups ... there is a hole·... Have to wake up ... I'm already at work for 3 hours ;o)
Can you add a picture of the other side of the PCB?
Post Edited (MagIO2) : 3/1/2010 10:01:44 AM GMT
Just don't mention you know what
I'm not an EE by trade this is only a passing interest for me and I had never done any board designs before I did Hybrid.
I learned by looking at examples and tutorials on the web and looking at posts just like Leon's and learnt as much as I could.
Perhaps some of the more experienced EE's on here could provide something in the way of a tutorial for Propeller board design, I'm sure there would be a lot of people who would gain from it. I know I would.....
@omgitsaliv55
Patrick, don't be put off by the criticism that has been shown here, use it for your own advantage and don't be put off!
Regards,
Coley
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PropGFX - The home of the Hybrid Development System and PropGFX Lite
Oh and Leon, I wouldn't pee on your board if the regulator was overheating [noparse];)[/noparse]
Graham
p.s. Yes I know it will not overheat due to the copper you have left under its tab, you probably even chose a really nice LDO unit [noparse]:)[/noparse]
p.p.s. Damn those pesky old radio hams, I'll get them next time, next time!
p.p.p.s OK, yes I missed breakfast
One problem re putting up a photo of a board and asking for advice and/or customers is that it may be the people who answer (ie those that have made boards) are also the people who don't need to buy one, as they already have their own! Catch 22. So there may be some potential customers here but there may be more potential customers elsewhere. The problem with 'elsewhere' (and I'm thinking of electronics magazines here) is that you have to convince people that the propeller is better than their current favourite solution.
Selling via a website is very tricky unless you advertise that website in other ways. That might involve writing up projects on "Instructables" or "Make Magazine" or in the print press. This all takes time (though you may well be paid for that time, particularly the print press).
I've made and sold many boards over the years. Some break even, some make a small profit and most make a loss. My day job funds my electronics hobby.
Having said that, there are individuals on this forum who seem to be doing very well selling propeller related products. My hat goes off to them.
The brutal reality of selling products is to ask whether you could afford to not sell a single one. If so, and if that wouldn't worry you as you have lots of uses for the boards yourself, then it doesn't matter.
If you are a student and investing a few hundred dollars in something that doesn't pay back is the difference between eating or not eating next week, then maybe it is too high a risk.
If you do want go ahead and make a board, perhaps post the preliminary design here and let it be torn to pieces. Who cares about how the advice is worded because the bottom line is getting a whole lot of generously given expert advice for free. There have been some brilliant suggestions already.
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/propeller
Can I offer some advice on the 'money making' part of your question?
It has been my experience that people will beat a path to your door if you can invent electronic answers that address their particular problem of the moment.
As you have the skills to produce a completed, working prototype of an embedded system, you're already half-way there.
My own electronic designs are really rough, but I make a living because I knock out kit, albeit unsophisticated, that works reliably.
Don't be discouraged by the tough criticism: it just means that you're an engineer now and we give each other 'no quarter'!
Regards,
T o n y
Leon, I keep on hearing about boards you make in the kitchen sink. This is the route I really want to take for the long term because with the economy going the way it is, I don't want to rely on a board house for my projects.
Do you have a link to a good tutorial on how to do this? Do you know where to purchase thinner circuit boards. I just keep finding 1/16th inch. I want about half that width.
Doug
tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Homebrew_PCBs/
I use a cheap HP Deskjet printer for the artwork, with Mega Electronics Jetstar Premium film. I plot directly to the film (cut to size and stuck to a piece of A4 paper to minimise the cost), and use it with positive resist pre-coated board in a home-made UV exposure unit. I then develop in sodium hydroxide solution (12 gm/litre) and etch in hot ferric chloride solution. The whole process takes about 30 minutes. Thinner laminate is often available on Ebay, or you might be able to scrounge some offcuts from a local PCB manufacturer. The problem with the thinner material is that you need to apply your own resist. Toner transfer with a laser printer is another popular technique, but I prefer photo-etch. I get very good results, with tracks down to 8 mils, and no breaks or shorts.
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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
it's a good idea - but when you ask for criticisms and suggestions here, you get them.
The honesty here, brash though it may be at times is helpful (I'm guilty too). If everyone here had been completely smiley face and sent you off of an economic cliff then the credibility of the forum would be suspect.
Remember, everyone started 'somewhere'. I can guarantee, my first board was no beauty contest winner and every board I get back from the production house lasts about 10 minutes before I see possible improvements.
As a technical suggestion, for your next rev, the traces around the regulator look a little thin.
You might have some success marketing your board but it'll be tough.
Good luck with it.
Jim-
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