Bluetooth for the Prop - Some ideas ???

Cluso99

I was pondering the use of a bluetooth mouse for use by the prop to communicate to the PC. Cheap enough I thought and you get both ends, meaning the USB Bluetooth as well.

If speed is not an issue, it would be fairly simple to have the prop use the button interface to send data by smulating buton presses and decoding them at the PC end. Whether I could break into the mouse board further I have not determined.

This led me to check the internet where I found Sparkfun have Bluetooth modules for $35. The PC end USB modules are $11 and here is a link with one taken apart http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=282

This got me thinking further... I wonder if it is possible to connect the prop to the usb end and simulate a USB master connection. Since we know what we are talking to it may be possible to do this by violating some USB specs in order to make this work.

What would this require...? Two USB modules and a USB connector for the prop end. I already know we can force a USB A connector into a PS2 pcb mounting. A small link is required to join the unused USB pin to the unconnected prop pin on the PS2 connector, so the hardware interface is easy as.

Now comes the hard bit. How do we do the USB software. BradC has done some work here, so maybe Brad you could throw some light on this. Only trying to do a serial interface.

If this could work it would be way cool and cheap.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

Leon

I could be wrong, but I don't think that anyone has done a USB host in software on any MCU; it just isn't feasible.

Leon

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Leon Heller
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

MagIO2

What about the BTM220 or BTM330 modules? Both have UART interfaces?

The modules cost around 12€ and at www.elektor.de there is a complete PCB available, for·27€ ( http://www.elektor.de/products/kits-modules/kits-(-7x)/bluetooth-mit-dem-atm18-(080948-71).1040106.lynkx·) ... unfortunately I can't find it in the english shop.



Post Edited (MagIO2) : 2/23/2010 1:52:26 PM GMT

Tubular

I've designed something around the Roving Networks RN41, available in AU from Soanar.

Someone on these forums recently found a similar module on ebay for $18 but I've lost the link temporarily.

I think if you can get a module which is easy to get working for $18 in serial mode, its a better option than trying to hack a $11 usb slave device (lot of sweat and tears for $7!)

The RN41 and similar modules are larger (about 26 x 13mm), but you could actually lift them off the PCB using short headers, which would free up the underspace for uSD, your SRAM chip, etc. But those usb bluetooth adapters are positively tiny, I have to admit. Wonder if anyone has dissected them to see if there are two chips instead of one (in which case there may be UART style links in between

For true USB host I'm looking at what an LPC2362 would offer for about $5 (Ethernet / USB otg). Futurlec sell an "LPC meal deal" - the big brother (LPC2368) plus a TQFP100 breakout PCB for about $10. Initial goal would just be to get it to behave like a usb prop plug. Plus its good soldering practice for when Prop2 comes in TQFP100

cheers
tubular

Cluso99

IIRC BradC (will have to check the recent threads) has done a primitive USB master (non-compliant) for serial. If that could work with these USB bluetooth sticks, then there would be no need to hack this.

My aim is to be able to use existing pcbs with only a minor mod (1 wire link) and substitute the PS2 keyboard/mouse with the USB Bluetooth stick. This is how it would connect...

• Add a wire link on the pcb to connect the kbdata pin to the unused secondary clock pin on the PS2 connector
• Use a PS2 to USB adapter (passive) - used for converting USB keyboards to PS2 connector
• Or.. Replace the PS2 socket with a USB - A connector· minor force required

Here is what I mean... Quick dwg showing the ps2 connector (not the pcb footprint)

• Red are the existing pcb connections to the connector
• Add the blue wire
• The USB connects to the green lines

UPDATE: Would require 2x100R changed to 2x68R and 2x10K pullups removed, and 1x1K5 to a free prop pin to one of the USB pins. However, code is going to be a nightmare! - see a few posts below.

This would be so simple and cheap, and you would have 2 USB Bluetooth adapters for other things uses too

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/24/2010 6:07:12 AM GMT

trodoss

@Cluso99,
Bluetooth with the PC would be great, but wouldn't implementing an IRDA-like solution be cheaper, if speed is not an issue? It would save trying to interface with USB to get PC to Prop communication going at a relatively low pin count.

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Game(s) Mythic Flight
Utilities Font Editors (AIGeneric, Potato_Text, etc.)

Bergamot

If you ever get the propeller working as a Bluetooth/HID Profile host, it would be pretty easy to interface with the Wii Remote for hydra games

Cluso99

I think there would be a lot of uses if we could get bluetooth working. Of course we could buy a module - the tiny one from Sparkfun for $35. But then we need a special prop pcb or adapter pcb.

However, if we could do it the way I suggested, there are multiple uses for this with existing pcbs. Just use the mouse port on some pcbs as they are often not used.

trodoss: I don't want line of sight.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

Bergamot

Cluso99 said...
I think there would be a lot of uses if we could get bluetooth working. Of course we could buy a module - the tiny one from Sparkfun for $35. But then we need a special prop pcb or adapter pcb.

However, if we could do it the way I suggested, there are multiple uses for this with existing pcbs. Just use the mouse port on some pcbs as they are often not used.

trodoss: I don't want line of sight.

I'm pretty sure the SparkFun modules are all locked into the serial profile and can't host other devices. I could be wrong though.

Cluso99

Brad has just answered on another thread. It is just too difficult to do as the bluetooth stack needs to be handled by the prop.

A serial Bluetooth module is going to be the solution.

Well, it was a nice idea if it worked [noparse]:([/noparse]

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

trodoss

Since not having "line of sight" is a factor, have you looked at Miniature RF (MiRF) transceiver modules? Nordic Semiconductor nRF2401A maybe? I know some of the breakout boards are as small as 5 pin. Just a thought.

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Game(s) Mythic Flight
Utilities Font Editors (AIGeneric, Potato_Text, etc.)

Cluso99

My thought was inspired by something I saw (don't recall now) so I just followed it through. I thought Bluetooth could be a good easy/cheap way to go. It still maybe, but with a USB ToGo chip and USB-A/B to plug any adapter into it including Bluetooth.

Otherwise, the ZigBee modules look like a good choice.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz

Chris Micro

As the propeller works with 3.3V you can directly interface a BTM112 or a BTM222 module.
They are quite cheap.