Just playing around with some possible formats, trading battery space for 8 cogs seems a good trade to me. All options would need a lower profile crystal.
The other possibilities are to connect the prop inside the Hirose backshell (waiting on connectors), or even via the MiniSD port (it would project at least 12mm)
There doesn't seem enough room throughout the bottom to replace that whole metal plate with a circuit board, but there is a space next the the speaker that has little population.
I would like to use my Zipit battery to get longer run times.
Now that Patchbox is a cute little board. Did I miss the announcement somewhere?
I was thinking of running of the oscillator that is built into the Zipit. Supposedly, it is 13Mhz, but unfortunately, my 50MHz Scopemeter doesn't show a clean sine wave so I can measure it.
But what I wanted to know is. Is that little rectangular thing NorthWest of the ARM cpu a crystal or a crystal clock oscilator. From what I can tell, it appears to be just a crystal.
If so, I probably couldn't tap off of it right?
hinv said...
Now that Patchbox is a cute little board. Did I miss the announcement somewhere?
Thanks hinv. Its my contribution to the ancient art of matchido, or stuffing propellers into matchboxes. I did post something back in 2008, see Patchbox.Tv.
I guess that rev3 in the photo never really got announced because I haven't tested the qfn FT232R (lower right in photo) yet. There's rev4 coming to soak up some of that wasted space up at top right...
It doesn't look that way to me though. It seems like he mentioned it, but I don't think anyones actually tested it. Everyone I see mention the USB on the EXT is either asking if its a host port or client port, or something like this, where its mentioned in passing, with no real results. Where is teh USB device and manufacturer ID? I would think it would be mentioned somewhere.
According to this zipit2system.sourceforge.net/pxa27xdesignguide.pdf
there is both a client port and an OTG port built into the processor. I would guess that the port on the axim connector(pints 3,11,12,14,15) is otg.
What's anyone's progress with the Zipit and Propeller?
After having mine sitting around for long time I finally got mad and chopped off the Yanki wallwart and connected the remaining cable to a 5v outlet from my PC and charged it up.
Well fine it started up into it's out of the box software. However very soon I managed to get Debian Linux installed on it by following the instructions from here: mythopoeic.org/zipit-on-linux-debian/
Beware: You will need some slightly newer *.deb packages than the ones linked to from there. Things have moved on a bit already. In fact I still don't have the wireless wpasupplicant package installed as it depends on a few other things now. But WEP or open wireless should work as is.
Well blimey, this thing runs Debian from the command line and you can start X Windows on it!
I've been having a bit of a laugh getting our embedded projects from work running on it.
Next up I need to get the soldering iron out and get the serial port working, then sort out the WPA wireless installation. At that point we have a terminal for the Propeller and the Prop on the internet.
@CassLan: I'm shocked you want to gut this thing it's a gem as it is[noparse]:)[/noparse]
@BradC: Time for the ARM build of BST is approaching...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
I have not opened mine up but I have the feeling that if I did I would have the same experience as gutting most mobile phones. There is nothing inside that is useful. Perhaps the screen but that might be too much to interface to. After breaking everything it ends up as a pile of bits at the bottom of the trash can.
The Zipit is an awfully cute computer that runs Linux. I want to use it that way.
By the way, it's already provided me with free means of demonstrating to the powers that be in my company that their embedded software will run on tiny little modern, low power, ARM processor boards and that they can ditch the huge industrial PC boxes they have been using so far[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Next to convince them to replace the 8255 based I/O with a USB or serially connected Propeller or two.
Yes, seriously, they are using chips for parallel I/O that were first launched in, what?, 1977. It's 2010 for heavens sake.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
@BradC: Time for the ARM build of BST is approaching...
I've also got debian running on the zipit. I've made moderate progress with an arm cross compiler too, so things are progress (but I've been sidetracked lately playing with my PropScope - it's exposed a few timing bugs in the loader).
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"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?"
@BradC: This is a bit OT but will be connected with the Prop eventually...
I have recently managed to get a GCC cross compiler for the ARM up and running using crosstoolng. Also I have Freepascal and Lazarus cross-compiling for ARM on Ubuntu after using an automated installation script and instructions from here wiki.freepascal.org/Setup_Cross_Compile_For_ARM.
However. I wanted to get Qt running on ARM. Cross-compiling all of that seems to be a royal pain. So I set myself up with an ARM simulation running Debian ARMEL under the Qemu emulator. Inside the emulation I installed the Qt dev tools and can now build Qt apps for ARM in the emulator. All be it slowly[noparse]:)[/noparse] I'm about to find out how slowly a simple Qt app runs on the Zipit....
As we speak I also have a machine compiling Qt embedded for ARM under Qemu. With Qt embedded it should be possible to run a Qt app without X11. Just into the framebuffer device. This should be a better fit for the Zipit. That compilation looks like it's going to take a week to finish!
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Finally managed to get secure wireless networking on the Zipit up and running using WPA.
This means I can now use secure shell (SSH) to login in to my Zipit from a PC over the air.
I have been following Douglas G. Henke's instructions here mythopoeic.org/zipit-on-linux-debian/. Douglas has been updating and expanding on those instructions as I go along and report problems.
Next step is the Propeller connection. There is a description of connecting some wires to the Zipit PCB for it's serial port here http://elinux.org/Zipit_Serial_Mod. Looks a bit tricky.
I'm hoping to be able to connect directly to the Propeller (No MAX233A circuit). Any anyone confirm if that's wise or not?
Battery life of the Zipit has only been one hour or so. Looks like I could quite happily discard the battery and put some Prop circuitry in the battery bay.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
That thing has 120 so called GPIO pins. Some how have to find one that is not doing some other dedicated function and hope it comes out somewhere accessible.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
According to this page www.gumstix.net/wiki/index.php?title=GPIO it is quite possible to configure (in/out) and then read/write GPIO pins from user space programs in Linux on the gumstix boards which use the same PAX270 ARM processor as the Zipit.
I notice that the Zipit Debian I'm running does indeed have the sysfs files in place: /sys/class/gpio/ etc etc.
So if we could find some spare GPIO and where they come out we can test them even from scripts.
Anyone had any luck finding them. As far as I can tell there is a camera interface coming out to the rear connector which is unused. How to connect to it?
With just one GPIO and the serial port connections we can get the Zipit loading Propellers.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Tubular: Can you give us the ordering details, part no. etc in case I want to get some. Would be dead neat if all the signals for serial/GPIO we need for a Prop loader come out on that connector.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Heater, this is the connector link thanks to bobdole369. I can post some detailed photos later if you like
bobdole369 said...
Hey those of you poking about with a scope, I have a pinout for the Axim connector. Its simple to signup as a dev, need to only agree to a "developers agreement" which says you can't make public certain proprietary info. I don't know specifically what, but I have a feeling its to do with specific programming somewhere. As the pinout is in the "developer area" and only available after you sign up, I won't just post it.
There exist microphone, headphone, I2C, USB (unsure if client or host), power (5v, 3.3v, 1.8v), and many pins dedicated to "camera interface".
I can also verify that 5VDC tip+ sleeve -
I purchased mine from Target.com for $49.99 + shipping. They are NOT available in the B&M stores anymore, the one I got was in a box (vs. the retail B&M blisterpack). SO I think only amazon and target.com as reliable suppliers.
In fact I just ordered from Newark part number:
Newark Part No:
59M2244
Manufacturer Part No:
ST40X-36S-CV(80)
Looking to get a perma-5V and headphone output to make it a dockable mp3 player for me car under one of the linuses that have been working.
I was hoping for a serial port (as in rs232), but I think thats gonna have to be something I solder on, unless teh thing will work as a USB host device [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Heater,
I have to apologise for the quality of these photos, I'll try and get some better ones later.
The connector has two rows of pins, which look like they would straddle either side of a 1.2mm PCB. There's not a whole lot of room in there, but it should be possible to fit a prop, xtal and eeprom and some pads for i/o via cable
There is some optional shielding steel which I haven't shown
Great. Hadn't occurred to me that one could fit a Prop in the connector housing like that. I like it.
Sadly the serial port does not come out on that connector. Perhaps we could make a Prop loader by bit banging the GPIO pins that are supposed to be the camera interface or some other.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Glad to see that this stuff hasn't fallen by the wayside. I'm not a propeller dev btw, I just happened to google my way in and I'm glad that I could help with the part numbers and whatnot.
Zipit work in general has sort of slowed, one of the main guys responsible (aliosa27) seems to be quitting and doing other stuff. (at least selling his zipits), ther has been a major achievement - Mozzwald (another hardware hacker) managed to get a full-fledged Ubuntu running on Zipit. X works with some prodding, but I run mine in text mode only.
I'd love to see what can be done with a propeller and a Zipit, it sure seems like its a fairly useful match.
Also another mention - It is possible to get the OTG USB port only thorugh a procedure to upgrade to U-Boot, which involves a hardware mod to put in the serial port. Just FYI. It isn't ready for prime time, but it IS working on at least one persons zipit. The trouble is that without U-Boot you can't run any kernel but an old one, which won't support the PXA OTG port. To upgrade to the newer kernel is quite involved.
bobdole369: Hey thanks for the heads up on progress in the ZipIt world.
As you probably read here I have Debian running on my Zipit quite happily with X, like you I'm happy to use text mode only, WIFI works so I can SSH into the Zipit.
Next step, among all my other projects will be to get a serial link out to the Prop.
What would be great is just a single GPIO line to use as reset for the Prop. Then we could get a Prop loader running on the Zipit.
Of course having USB OTG/HOST would mean we could run a USB-Serial adapter to the Prop and load it that way. I look forward to any news about that.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Thanks Bob. Mine is still sitting in it's box although I did open it up. I want to use it as a terminal only so I just need the serial working. So heaters idea to be able to download prop code is where I would like to go. Then hopefully bst should just run and I can compile and download with this.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
Now that clockloop showed us tht you can piggy back several props XI on the XO of the crystal connection of another prrop, it should be doable to clock the prop from one of the lines on the 13MHz crystal in the zipit.
I have a prop connected to almost all of the testpoints on the zipit board, but I don't know where to start to wiggle the gpio pins on the ports. It is a bit over my head at this point. I wish the Z2 was a bit more open hardware wise.
I have 4 ZipIt Z2s left at $42 including shipping to the lower 48 states.
Hinv: "I have a prop connected to almost all of the test points on the zipit board,"
In that case you probably have the test points for the serial connection already connected and can start talking to your Zipit via FullDuplexSerial or whatever.
Somewhere on the net I found a nice description of the required serial port test points and some very clear photos of exactly where they are on the board. Can't find it just now but I have it bookmarked on the computer in my office, I'll post a link when I get back to work.
How many other test points are there?
As for the other GPIO's we need:
1) To know the processor type.
2) Get a data sheet for it.
3) Find the addresses of the registers driving GPIO pins (May be shared with USB or whatever.
4) Get access to that memory range from a user space program.
5) Start trying to write ones and zeros to those addresses.
Fortunately, we don't need a Linux device driver for 4). We can make a little 50 line program that can get us access to all of physical memory from user space when running as root. DANGEROUS!
Then for 5) create a test script that uses the memory access program to try and wiggle what we think are the GPIO port addresses. Perhaps start with the serial out pin as we know where that is on the board.
When this is busy not crashing the Zipit one might get lucky and the Prop will detect a signal. BINGO we are in.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Comments
The other possibilities are to connect the prop inside the Hirose backshell (waiting on connectors), or even via the MiniSD port (it would project at least 12mm)
I would like to use my Zipit battery to get longer run times.
Now that Patchbox is a cute little board. Did I miss the announcement somewhere?
Post Edited (hinv) : 3/7/2010 3:23:50 PM GMT
But what I wanted to know is. Is that little rectangular thing NorthWest of the ARM cpu a crystal or a crystal clock oscilator. From what I can tell, it appears to be just a crystal.
If so, I probably couldn't tap off of it right?
Thanks hinv. Its my contribution to the ancient art of matchido, or stuffing propellers into matchboxes. I did post something back in 2008, see Patchbox.Tv.
I guess that rev3 in the photo never really got announced because I haven't tested the qfn FT232R (lower right in photo) yet. There's rev4 coming to soak up some of that wasted space up at top right...
Hope to have time to rip into them early next week [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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You only ever need two tools in life. If it moves and it shouldn't use Duct Tape. If it does not move and it should use WD40.
g1powermac.com/2008/09/05/the-zipit-2-system-project/
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You only ever need two tools in life. If it moves and it shouldn't use Duct Tape. If it does not move and it should use WD40.
Here:
http://zipit2system.sourceforge.net/?page_id=119
From the "new" site, contrary evidence calling it "PXA27x’s USB Device Controller"
Post Edited (bobdole369) : 3/10/2010 1:21:00 AM GMT
there is both a client port and an OTG port built into the processor. I would guess that the port on the axim connector(pints 3,11,12,14,15) is otg.
After having mine sitting around for long time I finally got mad and chopped off the Yanki wallwart and connected the remaining cable to a 5v outlet from my PC and charged it up.
Well fine it started up into it's out of the box software. However very soon I managed to get Debian Linux installed on it by following the instructions from here: mythopoeic.org/zipit-on-linux-debian/
Beware: You will need some slightly newer *.deb packages than the ones linked to from there. Things have moved on a bit already. In fact I still don't have the wireless wpasupplicant package installed as it depends on a few other things now. But WEP or open wireless should work as is.
Well blimey, this thing runs Debian from the command line and you can start X Windows on it!
I've been having a bit of a laugh getting our embedded projects from work running on it.
Next up I need to get the soldering iron out and get the serial port working, then sort out the WPA wireless installation. At that point we have a terminal for the Propeller and the Prop on the internet.
@CassLan: I'm shocked you want to gut this thing it's a gem as it is[noparse]:)[/noparse]
@BradC: Time for the ARM build of BST is approaching...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
I have not opened mine up but I have the feeling that if I did I would have the same experience as gutting most mobile phones. There is nothing inside that is useful. Perhaps the screen but that might be too much to interface to. After breaking everything it ends up as a pile of bits at the bottom of the trash can.
The Zipit is an awfully cute computer that runs Linux. I want to use it that way.
By the way, it's already provided me with free means of demonstrating to the powers that be in my company that their embedded software will run on tiny little modern, low power, ARM processor boards and that they can ditch the huge industrial PC boxes they have been using so far[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Next to convince them to replace the 8255 based I/O with a USB or serially connected Propeller or two.
Yes, seriously, they are using chips for parallel I/O that were first launched in, what?, 1977. It's 2010 for heavens sake.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
Post Edited (heater) : 5/24/2010 10:12:34 AM GMT
I've also got debian running on the zipit. I've made moderate progress with an arm cross compiler too, so things are progress (but I've been sidetracked lately playing with my PropScope - it's exposed a few timing bugs in the loader).
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"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?"
I have recently managed to get a GCC cross compiler for the ARM up and running using crosstoolng. Also I have Freepascal and Lazarus cross-compiling for ARM on Ubuntu after using an automated installation script and instructions from here wiki.freepascal.org/Setup_Cross_Compile_For_ARM.
However. I wanted to get Qt running on ARM. Cross-compiling all of that seems to be a royal pain. So I set myself up with an ARM simulation running Debian ARMEL under the Qemu emulator. Inside the emulation I installed the Qt dev tools and can now build Qt apps for ARM in the emulator. All be it slowly[noparse]:)[/noparse] I'm about to find out how slowly a simple Qt app runs on the Zipit....
As we speak I also have a machine compiling Qt embedded for ARM under Qemu. With Qt embedded it should be possible to run a Qt app without X11. Just into the framebuffer device. This should be a better fit for the Zipit. That compilation looks like it's going to take a week to finish!
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For me, the past is not over yet.
This means I can now use secure shell (SSH) to login in to my Zipit from a PC over the air.
I have been following Douglas G. Henke's instructions here mythopoeic.org/zipit-on-linux-debian/. Douglas has been updating and expanding on those instructions as I go along and report problems.
Next step is the Propeller connection. There is a description of connecting some wires to the Zipit PCB for it's serial port here http://elinux.org/Zipit_Serial_Mod. Looks a bit tricky.
I'm hoping to be able to connect directly to the Propeller (No MAX233A circuit). Any anyone confirm if that's wise or not?
Battery life of the Zipit has only been one hour or so. Looks like I could quite happily discard the battery and put some Prop circuitry in the battery bay.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
If you can get a gpio to toggle and have the serial lines then we have the basis for a propeller loader.
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"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?"
That thing has 120 so called GPIO pins. Some how have to find one that is not doing some other dedicated function and hope it comes out somewhere accessible.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
I notice that the Zipit Debian I'm running does indeed have the sysfs files in place: /sys/class/gpio/ etc etc.
So if we could find some spare GPIO and where they come out we can test them even from scripts.
Anyone had any luck finding them. As far as I can tell there is a camera interface coming out to the rear connector which is unused. How to connect to it?
With just one GPIO and the serial port connections we can get the Zipit loading Propellers.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
I have to apologise for the quality of these photos, I'll try and get some better ones later.
The connector has two rows of pins, which look like they would straddle either side of a 1.2mm PCB. There's not a whole lot of room in there, but it should be possible to fit a prop, xtal and eeprom and some pads for i/o via cable
There is some optional shielding steel which I haven't shown
Sadly the serial port does not come out on that connector. Perhaps we could make a Prop loader by bit banging the GPIO pins that are supposed to be the camera interface or some other.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
Zipit work in general has sort of slowed, one of the main guys responsible (aliosa27) seems to be quitting and doing other stuff. (at least selling his zipits), ther has been a major achievement - Mozzwald (another hardware hacker) managed to get a full-fledged Ubuntu running on Zipit. X works with some prodding, but I run mine in text mode only.
I'd love to see what can be done with a propeller and a Zipit, it sure seems like its a fairly useful match.
As you probably read here I have Debian running on my Zipit quite happily with X, like you I'm happy to use text mode only, WIFI works so I can SSH into the Zipit.
Next step, among all my other projects will be to get a serial link out to the Prop.
What would be great is just a single GPIO line to use as reset for the Prop. Then we could get a Prop loader running on the Zipit.
Of course having USB OTG/HOST would mean we could run a USB-Serial adapter to the Prop and load it that way. I look forward to any news about that.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
I have a prop connected to almost all of the testpoints on the zipit board, but I don't know where to start to wiggle the gpio pins on the ports. It is a bit over my head at this point. I wish the Z2 was a bit more open hardware wise.
I have 4 ZipIt Z2s left at $42 including shipping to the lower 48 states.
Take Care,
Doug
In that case you probably have the test points for the serial connection already connected and can start talking to your Zipit via FullDuplexSerial or whatever.
Somewhere on the net I found a nice description of the required serial port test points and some very clear photos of exactly where they are on the board. Can't find it just now but I have it bookmarked on the computer in my office, I'll post a link when I get back to work.
How many other test points are there?
As for the other GPIO's we need:
1) To know the processor type.
2) Get a data sheet for it.
3) Find the addresses of the registers driving GPIO pins (May be shared with USB or whatever.
4) Get access to that memory range from a user space program.
5) Start trying to write ones and zeros to those addresses.
Fortunately, we don't need a Linux device driver for 4). We can make a little 50 line program that can get us access to all of physical memory from user space when running as root. DANGEROUS!
Then for 5) create a test script that uses the memory access program to try and wiggle what we think are the GPIO port addresses. Perhaps start with the serial out pin as we know where that is on the board.
When this is busy not crashing the Zipit one might get lucky and the Prop will detect a signal. BINGO we are in.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
Do read about tweaking GPIOs from the command line here: www.gumstix.net/wiki/index.php?title=GPIO#Accessing_GPIO.27s_from_userland
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For me, the past is not over yet.