Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
I'm just starting into Microcontrollers — Parallax Forums

I'm just starting into Microcontrollers

silverbacksilverback Posts: 40
edited 2010-01-28 01:25 in General Discussion
I'm just starting into the world of Microcontrollers, I have been researching basic stamp and propeller and would like opinions from those who have more experience.

I do know I would like advance to robotics and automation in the long run, but don't know what the best course of education.

Thanks

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
If you convince yourself that something is impossible before you even try; you are sure to prove yourself right.

Comments

  • davejamesdavejames Posts: 4,047
    edited 2010-01-23 04:40
    Hi silverback - welcome.

    Your question will probably generate a number of answers...and I would suppose they'll fall into two catagories:
    ···· 1) ease of use, resonable capability
    ···· 2) challenging, vastly more features

    I operate in camp #1. Eventhough the Propellor was fully released when I started dabbling, I needed something a bit more familiar in terms of software to ease the learning curve and bring my products to reality faster. So I chose to go the Basic Stamp route. I may have to switch to the Propellor for future products...or if I can't my particular flavor of Stamp anymore.

    Either product line will give you experience in the areas you mentioned.

    Success to you,

    DJ

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2010-01-23 05:17
    Hi Ho Silverback, welcome to the forum! smile.gif

    My suggestion would be to start out with the Basic Stamp, get the hang of microcontrollers using their various education modules, kits, or whatever, then when you feel like you've mastered the Stamp, take a look at the Propeller. The Propeller is much more powerful and can be used just for fun or for some serious work, too. I knew nothing about microprocessors when I started with the Stamp, and what I learned with the Stamp helped me pick up the Propeller fairly quickly. Unfortunately, the Propeller does not yet have all the easy-to-use documentation, etc. that the Stamp has, and I would say the Stamp has that in abundance. The Propeller educational stuff is catching up with what's available for the Stamp, but if you have no experience whatsoever, definitely start with the Stamp.

    Either way, I think you'll find the forums very helpful.

    Enjoy!

    Mark

    smile.gif
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2010-01-23 05:35
    I agree with ElectricAye. If you don't have any electronics or programming experience, start with the BS2.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Powered by enthusiasm
  • P!-RoP!-Ro Posts: 1,189
    edited 2010-01-23 05:58
    Going from using the basic stamp to the propeller isn't the easiest, however the BS will allow for you to easily learn about circuits and how microprocessors work. If you already know how to program on a computer and have worked with electronic circuits already starting on the basic stamp may be unnecessary and cost you more in the end. However, if you don't know many of these things the BS is the best place to start off in learning them as it is a much simpler processor. So, to answer your question, what you start off with depends on what you know about electronics already.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    PG
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2010-01-23 06:06
    Start with the Basic Stamp and the the books in the Parallax Education series.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    humanoido
    *Stamp SEED Supercomputer *Basic Stamp Supercomputer *TriCore Stamp Supercomputer
    *Minuscule Stamp Supercomputer *Three Dimensional Computer *Penguin with 12 Brains
    *Penguin Tech *StampOne News! *Penguin Robot Society
    *Handbook of BASIC Stamp Supercomputing
    *Ultimate List Propeller Languages
    *MC Prop Computer
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2010-01-23 06:11
    silverback said...
    I'm just starting into the world of Microcontrollers, I have been researching basic stamp and propeller and would like opinions from those who have more experience.


    I do know I would like advance to robotics and automation in the long run, but don't know what the best course of education.

    Contrary to the advice given by almost everyone else here, I'd suggest getting a Propeller PE Kit and starting from scratch there. If you are learning to program from scratch, why not start with something that has far more long term potential and fewer limitations ?

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Life may be "too short", but it's the longest thing we ever do.
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2010-01-23 09:18
    I too suggest the Propeller.
    While the BS is insanely easy to use, the Propeller is closing the gap rapidly.
    On both cases you'll find a lot of code, ready for experimenting. Using existing code is a great way to learn and improve you skills, and get started in no time. Downloading an object, run it and seeing your little baby working in no time is a nice way to get started. Then you can start modifiyng the code, ensuring a smooth learning curve.
    Both offer an easy to use language, while Propeller is offering now more options.

    The advantage with the propeller is you'll have much more power at your disposal on the long term..

    I love the Propeller demo board. You can do a lot of things with it, without the need of soldering. If you need more room there is the proto board..

    Massimo
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2010-01-23 11:31
    I, too would suggest starting with the Propeller.

    The Propeller is eminently suited for robotics and automation because of high execution speed, lots of IO and multi-processing.

    Of course, you can learn the basics on the STAMP, but then you'd have to 'relearn' a lot of the programming bits as you'd have to learn a new language. (Yes, you can use the BS2-compatible commands found in the OBEX or wherever, but that will in the long run limit you.)
    The Propeller is more difficult to learn to use efficiently, but I believe that you'll find that it's less effort than first learning the BS2, then relearning on the Propeller.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Don't visit my new website...
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2010-01-23 15:15
    Gadgetman said...
    I, too would suggest starting with the Propeller....
    Of course, you can learn the basics on the STAMP, but then you'd have to 'relearn' a lot of the programming bits as you'd have to learn a new language....

    Personally, I think learning SPIN would be far, far easier to do after learning how to use the BS2 (Basic Stamp). Even for just the demo projects, the Propeller makes use of Objects that are, in my opinion, very poorly commented and that use a lot of assembly language, so I think it can get overwhelming for a beginner to suddenly be faced with so many new things when it comes to the Propeller: the multocore aspects, HUB memory, Objects without comments, Objects that use assembly language, etc. The BS2 has a long history with high school kids and kids even younger than that, so there are a lot more documented approaches that help beginners on every level to get a grip on the concepts. Once you have the concepts down, then you can fearlessly move forward in many directions, including the awesome Propeller.

    My own philosophy is to start small, get a solid foundation in something, then shoot for the Moon from there, so I like to err on the side of caution when starting totally new things, but that never stops me from taking a flying leap after getting my feet on the ground.

    It's not like learning the BS2 somehow precludes you from learning the Propeller, nor does learning the BS2 steer you down some dark, dead-end back alley in which growth is impossible.

    On the other hand, if you are already familiar with computers, bits and byte operations, and general electronics (RC circuits, filters, transistor operation, voltage dividers, etc.) then the Prop might be right for you.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2010-01-23 16:18
    Your first project is to get an LED to blink.· Once you understand how to get an LED to blink you should then get it to blink in miliseconds.· Then you are on your way to understanding Microcontrollers.

    I would probably start with the board·"What is a Microcontroller"?
  • silverbacksilverback Posts: 40
    edited 2010-01-25 00:30
    Since I know that I will·need the multiprocess environment, I agreed that going straight into the propeller platform would (though hard at first) payoff in the long run. I was this close (gestures) to ordering the Propeller PE kit until I read the following in the Lab book (PDF):

    "Prerequisites

    [font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][font=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]These labs assume prior microcontroller experience. Although the Setup and Testing labs provide wiring diagrams, the rest do not. At a minimum, you should have experience building circuits from schematics as well as experience with some form of computer or microcontroller programming language. [/font][/font]"

    Then the doubt crept in.

    I figured I would have enough on my plate, learning the language and how to utilize the capibilities of the mC without worrying about frying·it if I misread a schematic. I don't really care too much if I accidently torch a led or temp probe, but I don't want to chance screwing up the controller.

    My question is this: If I setup the testbed on the provided diagrams (assuming it tests out good); if I were to miswire a componet in a future lab project (not altering the setup) could·that·fry·any of the·major componets (EEPROM, Propeller, etc)?





    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    If you convince yourself that something is impossible before you even try; you are sure to prove yourself right.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2010-01-25 01:10
    silverback said...
    ....

    My question is this: If I setup the testbed on the provided diagrams (assuming it tests out good); if I were to miswire a componet in a future lab project (not altering the setup) could that fry any of the major componets (EEPROM, Propeller, etc)?


    That's a very broad question and I would say it's impossible to know if the lab kits are genuinely "idiot-proof" since I'm sure there's always somebody out there who might find a way to fry something using a technique nobody ever thought of before. Generally speaking, if you are fearful of making mistakes with schematics, etc. then you really need to start with the basics, and I think the Basic Stamp 2 and all the tutorials, etc. that accompany it would be the way to go. You know, they don't call it Basic for nothing! Also, frying circuits is practically a rite of passage in learning electronics. The most important points are 1. don't electrocute yourself or others and 2. don't burn the place to the ground. If you persist in your explorations and achieve points 1 and 2, then you will succeed in your quest.

    I think the Prerequisites you quote are correct in their philosophy. And, lo and behold, the Basic Stamp has an excellent track record for ushering people into the world of microprocessors. Ergo....

    Go for it.

    smile.gif
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2010-01-25 01:24
    The Propeller is a pretty hardy chip. As long as you have a good multi-meter and have checked your power setup, almost everything else it tolerant of the odd error.

    Really, the Propeller is no mystery, and it's a lot easier than some other small micros to get going. As they say in the Ad's on telly. "Just do it" [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    You won't regret it.. honest.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Life may be "too short", but it's the longest thing we ever do.
  • iDaveiDave Posts: 252
    edited 2010-01-25 03:13
    Somebody said...
    It's not like learning the BS2 somehow precludes you from learning the Propeller, nor does learning the BS2 steer you down some dark, dead-end back alley in which growth is impossible.

    Well said ...and I wholeheartedly agree.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    "A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer."
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2010-01-25 03:40
    I would also suggest starting with the propeller. You might consider using either Hanno's 12Blocks programming system. 12Blocks is graphic, easy for those completely unfamiliar with programming, and it produces Spin code which you can examine.
  • P!-RoP!-Ro Posts: 1,189
    edited 2010-01-25 03:40
    I've burn out a prop before, and I've burnt out a bs2. The difference? The prop was replaced for 12 bucks (before the price drop) and the bs2 cost 50 bucks. So don't make that your excuse to not try the·prop, and·if you're worried about a burn up get the dip kit to decrease the cost if you do.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    PG
  • max72max72 Posts: 1,155
    edited 2010-01-25 07:37
    I still think the propeller demo board is a nice place to start.
    You have a lot of stuff already wired, including some leds, PS/2 ports for mouse and keyboard, VGA and TV out, and audio.
    You can start blinking leds aready on the board, even is the wiring is unconventional, and doing a lot of coding without risking to fry your board.

    Massimo
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,720
    edited 2010-01-25 14:16
    @silverback yeah.gif

    Welcome to the wonderful world of Microcontrollers.
    silverback said...
    could that fry any of the major componets (EEPROM, Propeller, etc

    From what you outlined as your goals, I'd vote for the Propeller chip as well. The documentation get better each few months & there's tremendous help available on the Forums. If you are afraid of frying components and you are purchasing the "Propeller Education Kit - 40 pin DIP Version" you can always add a few spare components to aid in your comfort level. The 3 items listed would only add 10.74 to the cost. I have done plenty of experimenting with a 40 pin dip and made plenty of mistakes. I still use the original chips I purchased. yeah.gif

    EXAMPLES:
    =================================
    256 Kbit (32 KByte) Industrial I2C Serial EEPROM
    32K-byte EEPROM (Propeller-DIP)
    Item code 602-00032
    Price $1.50
    ===============================
    3.3V Regulator
    Item code 601-00513
    Price $1.25
    ===============================
    Propeller Chip - 40-Pin DIP Chip
    Item code P8X32A-D40
    Price $7.99
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2010-01-25 20:13
    One of the other things you can do is immerse yourself in the Nuts and Volts magazines which you can find at your local library or download here:

    http://www.parallax.com/tabid/272/Default.aspx
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2010-01-27 06:07
    Chuckz gave good advise when he recommended Nut sn Volts magazine...it's great smile.gif

    I'd start with the propeller chip kit....but the AVR based Arduino is a good 2nd choice.

    This is all so much fun, you will love it smile.gif
  • b.p.m.b.p.m. Posts: 59
    edited 2010-01-28 01:25
    Egads! Sacrilege, sacrilege I say! Mere mentioning of another company's microcontroller
    on a Parallax forum is heresy. wink.gifwink.gifwink.gif
    Seriously though I think the Propeller and Spin are a good place to start. The propeller
    is versatile and powerful for a microcontroller. Spin is just little harder to learn than basic.

    Blake

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    "Can't sleep, clown will eat me."
    Bart Simpson
Sign In or Register to comment.