Need Prop2 !
Rayman
Posts: 14,876
Will crying make it come any faster?
I've been working with some LCDs and could REALLY, REALLY use
more pins, faster speed, and more HUB RAM...
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
I've been working with some LCDs and could REALLY, REALLY use
more pins, faster speed, and more HUB RAM...
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Comments
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
Also, the smaller process of the P2 means its more numerous junctions will leak more, so no more throttling the power consumption down to microamps by turning off all but one of the cogs, switching to RCSLOW, and doing lazy WAITCNTs. I can think of several apps where I'd much rather use two or three P1's than the P2 as it's currently specced. (Not that I don't want the P2 too, for other reasons, but I WANT IT ALL, DAMMIT!!!!)
There are so many things I want to build:
- faster http / ftp server (being able to stream video)
- Navigation system including high color maps and voice output
- WiFi Internet Radio + mp3 player device with display and IR remote control
Is there a possibility to get the latest information on the development progress that has been made?
A newsletter or something?
More pins, more ram and multiple I/O. But we have what we have, and I want stuff to work now, not in the future, so it wasn't so hard to cobble together the bits I wanted on the Dracblade board. LCD20x4. Keyboard, SD card, VGA display, two serial ports, a handful of spare pins, I2C, 512k ram.
But that won't be what others might need. Eg, compared with the prop demo board, the Dracblade does not have: - sound, TV, mouse, raw spare prop pins.
The great thing is that the prop has been out a few years so there are all sorts of existing circuits out there that probably do what you want. So you can mix and match to make what you need.
More speed? Write more PASM code.
More output pins? Use latches.
More input pins? Use buffers.
More RAM? Use an external ram chip (Cluso has some nifty pre-built boards if you don't want to solder too much)
LCD displays? What sort - text or graphic?
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/propeller
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
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Life may be "too short", but it's the longest thing we ever do.
This is a job for Prop2 (or ARM Cortex, if you can't wait...)
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Thing about ARM solutions is that whilst you can get the bigger graphics screens you can't do seven other high speed real-time things at the same time.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
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cmapspublic3.ihmc.us:80/servlet/SBReadResourceServlet?rid=1181572927203_421963583_5511&partName=htmltext
Hello Rest Of The World
Hello Debris
Install a propeller and blow them away
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
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Style and grace : Nil point
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Style and grace : Nil point
Also, you might be able to get 3 Prop's working in concert to do it (one for each 8 bit channel). You'd still need 128k of external memory for each Prop, but you'd have enough pins available for whatever ram choice you wanted. Using parallel sram would give you much faster ram access so your fps would not be so low. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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Check out the Propeller Wiki·and contribute if you can.
And if there's a P2, please, oh, please still have a form factor that a hobbiest or R&D group can prototype. BGAs and QFNs are utterly useless to anyone without a reflow or SMT line (and associated bag of gold to pay for them).
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
I can actually make a 24 bit board for Morpheus for 480x272 LCD's (not using the SPI ram's but wide sram's), but in order to make a small profit, I'd have to get about 50 pre-orders at approx. $100USD+s/h each kit - and it would only work on Morpheus, and it would require mctrivia's breakout (so you guys don't have to solder SMT). It would take 2-3 months before I could ship the boards, and I'd need the pre-orders ahead of time.
To make a nice generic SMT board, assembled and tested, that would work with any prop board with a free 8 pin group, I'd need a month longer, and about $150 per board, and again, I'd need at least 50 pre-orders before I got started.
I have two of mctrivia's breakouts, and 10 of the "used" displays, so it would not be difficult - but it would not be cheap either.
Please note that it would NOT be incredibly fast for drawing functions either - for every pixel, the Prop would have to write three bytes, one at a time, while sharing the memory bus.
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
here is a tutorial on soldering bga with a toaster oven($50 or so)
http://www.instructables.com/id/Toaster-Oven-Reflow-Soldering-BGA/
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24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $24.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
If you have not already. Add yourself to the prophead map
I just got my hot air rework station in, my 1206 resistor kit, my 1206 capacitor kit... Danger Will Robinson, Bill's getting into SMD! (I have to prepare for PropII)
You know... two of your modules could be used to make a 32 bit wide ram for 24 bit color with 8 bit transparency... but it would really need an FPGA, as I mentioned above, pushing that many three-byte pixels is not exactly the Prop's forte.
With an FPGA you could also do point and line drawing in hardware... maybe even simple blits. You know... you already make the breakout module, and the memory module. Maybe you should do an FPGA 24 bit module... I have too much on my plate right now to tackle BGA/FPGA [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
*lie mode on*
Yes, of course it will, probably in the next few days.
Seriously though, there must be another way to solve this problem.
Something I'd like is a full VGA screen with 24 bit color and the ability to make any pixel any color I want. The prop can do much smaller VGA, but maybe there are other ways. The N8VEM group are using old school video chips to get color VGA. Heck, Dennis Kuschel www.mycpu.eu/ is doing it with 5 boards made up of 74xx chips and a few rams and roms.
But do you mean like a LCD VGA monitor, or one of the various smart LCD graphics modules? If the latter, well if they have memory on board that makes things a lot easier.
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/propeller
However he was always full of (expletive):
www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html
What would we do here in Propeller world if nobody wanted to share with anyone like that spoiled brat.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Post Edited (heater) : 2/7/2010 6:27:53 PM GMT
i am working on a platform that uses a 16 bit ram module to get 16 bit color to the screen. just keep getting side tracked with having to assemble more boards and need for money.
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24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $24.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
If you have not already. Add yourself to the prophead map
I did say 12 of those serial rams would be needed, but you don't need them wired up on their own pins. You could get up to 16 of them wired up with 8 pins (3 for clk and i/o, and 5 to drive a 4 to 16 decoder thingy (which selects the chips via their CS pins)). So you could have one prop with 24 pins hooked up to the display (is that how those little lcd things work? 24 pins needed for 24bit color?) and 8 pins to those serial rams. However, I forgot about the pins consumed by the "other" stuff for the display (sync and whatever else).
Is it possible to rig up some kind of serial to parallel setup to drive the 24bit color. Like one serial to parallel chip for each color component? Would that be fast enough, or even work at all? 480x272x24bit would require a little over 3 megbits (1 megabit per channel) of data per frame to be serially sent out.
Anyway, I really don't have a need for a 24bit color display on a Prop, but I just like to think about it. It's a Problem and my brain wants to solve it. Even if it lacks the knowledge required...
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Check out the Propeller Wiki·and contribute if you can.
Those SPI rams are a bad fit for the problem, and they would have to be read out 24 bits at a time, and it would be incredibly slow to update the display. Another factor is 12 SPI rams cost >$12, and three 512kx8 parallel rams (giving much more memory for frame buffer) would only cost $9, so are a better choice for doing this.
It would be possible to use some shift registers to reduce the pin count, but I don't think it can be made fast enough to be useful as 480x272x60Hz = 7.83Mpix/sec, but with hsync and vsync overhead, need about 8.5MHz clock minimum.
I know I could come up with a way to do it, probably using multiplexed memory bus and multiplexed display out, but it would be a lot of work, and would need a semi-custom PCB (I could make something based on my Propteus board with extra logic and memory) - and I don't know if enough people would buy it to make it worthwhile to build. I can't afford to take on projects I would lose money on.
With PropII it will be easy to do.
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www.mikronauts.com E-mail: mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com 5.0" VGA LCD in stock!
Morpheus dual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory/IO kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 SerPlug $9.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler Largos - upcoming nano operating system
Such updates wouldn't have to be particularly detailed: layout has begun, layout is proceeding, a problem with the design tool has been encountered, design tool problem worked around, sample chips have been arranged, sample chips have are in testing, and so on and so forth (with more detail welcome, of course). Perhaps posting such updates would also help keep the design team on track, somehow.
Personally, I'm glad to see someone as level-headed as Rayman--someone who has propeller products shipping to the community--be concerned enough about this matter to make such an honest post/plea. No doubt there are lots of ideas in various members' minds that are just begging for a Prop II. Yes, this post has cooled down, but it is not forgotten. Any possiblity for an update mechanism of some sort for the Prop II, Parallax? Regardless, we'll keep plugging-away with the existing chip and wonderful support. Thanks for listening.
1) I think it's a very poor use of Parallax's limited time and resources to product such a newsletter
2) I think there's a potential risk of putting undue pressure on the design team to produce a less than ideal product despite the best of intentions
3) Parallax has been very good to date at sharing information that makes sense to share through existing mechanisms (like this forum).
4) Be patient. Clamoring for information or for features, particularly those already discussed and discarded is not helpful.