Project box laminate

Don M

I want to produce a decal of sorts to·cover the face of my project box. Does anyone know of any neat (as in trick) way of doing this? Is there any sort of vinyl laminate that can be printed on with an inkjet type printer that can then be attached to the face of a box? Looking for something rather thick as in durable. If it is as thin as paper it would easily be torn or marked.

Any ideas?

Thanks.
Don

Don M

Or maybe some kind of Mylar film?

Whit

Don M,

I bet someone at a sign shop could give you some good ideas. Good luck!

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+


"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney

John R.

There "used to be" a number of photosensitive products from 3M and others that worked great for this. With the decline of "blue prints" these producsts have went the way of the serial port on a PC. (Rare, if at all).

There are some laser/inkjet based alternatives, but I have not seen anything really "durable". The landscape on this is changing quickly, so you might want to look for "self laminating" products.

The other alternative would be to laser/inkjet your panel/label on readily available label stock, and then use a self adhesive clear laminate over that. Look for labels, etc, with "permanaent" adhesive. These are harder to peel off.

Another alternative is to use a paper label underneath a thin layer of lexan or plexiglass. If you want to get really fancy, you can even use translucent colors and have the panel backlit. Before the days of computer controlled systems, I did a number of industrial and model railroad control panels this way. I had a black layer of film that I cut windows in, and then put colored celophane (spelling?) on theback side. This was sandwiched between two layers of lexan, and back lit. For one of the model railroad panels, we even had individual grain of wheat bulbs behind the track sections that corresponded with train sensors. For some of the industrial (more dollars available) we actually had "photo masks" made for the opaque portions.

A little off topic, just putting out some brain storming ideas for you.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

Don M

John R.- That is what I like to hear. Brainstorming. That is why I post to this forum to get ideas from others and share mine as well. My previous experience with putting anything paper under a laminate is if the item somehow gets exposed to a bit a moisture it wicks in and "bleeds" into the paper underneath.

That being said does anyone know of a supplier that can take artwork and produce a tough laminate stick-on? I am not sure if laminate is the correct word here but just trying to get my idea across.

mpark

Check out Peter Jakacki's post in the "Sneak Preview - a New Prop Computer" thread:

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=870799

Mike2545

Don, I have just completed a project and needed a similar decal for the box. I used http://www.newfaxcorp.com/HomePage.cfm

On MS publisher I created the look I wanted and emailed them the image then just applied and cut out the holes

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Mike2545

Don M

Mike2545- what material did they use? How thick is it? Thicker than a business card?

John R.

Don M said...


My previous experience with putting anything paper under a laminate is if the item somehow gets exposed to a bit a moisture it wicks in and "bleeds" into the paper underneath.

While this can be a problem, you can minimize/eliminate it if you have the clear laminate overlap the paper label, and make sure the paper is also adhered to the substrate.· You need to make sure you have overlap on ALL edges, including any holes for knobs, switches, screws, etc.

It's not the best, and you can still have bleed problems with any "gouges" that happen over time.· You also need to make sure the adhesive is at least water resistant.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

Mike2545

Don, it is a vinyl material that is as thick·as a business card.





Edit the thickness

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Mike2545

Post Edited (Mike2545) : 1/22/2010 9:34:47 PM GMT

stamptrol

·· If there is a local sign maker, he might have a New Hermes laminate router. While most shops use the standard sign making software, the router will accept a CAD drawing from AutoSketch or AutoCad. The material is called Lamacoid and is 1/16" thick. The surface color gets cut away to show the underlying color. Won't rot, rust, bust or fade away.

· Because the source is a CAD drwing, the layout is very precise.

· I've attached a simple faceplate as an example.

· Cheers,
·

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Tom Sisk

http://www.siskconsult.com

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Those routers must have depth control. The letters in your photo have varying stroke widths.

-Phil

John R.

I don't think they do the varying width with depth control, they just do multiple passes with a small diameter bit.

Especially to Phil: You might be interested in knowing that you can do the same thing with a laser. I don't know if they use a different material so the plastic doesn't have a burnt appearance in the letters or if it "just works", but the guy at our local show was doing it as part of his demo. (That new hammer is looking better all the time!)

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
John R.
Click here to see my Nomad Build Log

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

John,

I think it's a very similar material for laser engraving, except that the top layer is a lot thinner. The catalogs for engravable materials have begun showing up in the mail. Now I know where all those employee-of-the-month plaques and company logo pen holders come from!

-Phil

stamptrol

Phil,

The only z-axis ( depth) is on-off with a small air cylinder. The different text styles come from using different texts in the CAD program and the router just makes multiple passes to get the required boldness. Same with widths of straight lines. Router bits are available from something like 0.008" up to 0.125" or perhaps a bit more. I think this one was done with 0.010".

Cheers,

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Tom Sisk

http://www.siskconsult.com
·

Erik Friesen

One thing I have done is print up my decal, and have it hot laminated at a local office depot. You can cut out windows and they will turn out surprisingly well. One limitation is the laminator though, as I have had different luck and different places. If the laminator is set correctly the windows will turn out with no bubbles, but if not they can be full of bubbles. I use one particular store as I know theirs works better than others. I think it has to do with the heat setting.

Have you checked out something like myonestop.com? They are fairly cheap, but they don't offer completely clear windows.

Tracy Allen

I print with an inkjet on ILFORD Gallerie "smooth high gloss media" #1127427. That one is a specially treated polyester film that takes ink to produce vivid colors and sharp lines. Then with a self-adhesive film laminated on top, the ink is sandwiched between two layers of plastic, so it holds up well to moisture. It is tricky to laminate without leaving bubbles, but one secret is work lightly from one end with a brayer. I haven't tried heat lamination, nor cutting holes in it. I use it for terminal labels, with a sticky transfer adhesive on the back.


Another option, the Brother p-touch label printer makes crisp laminated labels, in two colors with a wide variety of tapes available online. They are weather and scuff resistant. But it only makes relatively narrow labels.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Tracy,

Is the ink waterproof? If so, you might try what vinyl sign installers do and wet the clear overlay in water will a little dish soap added. That makes it easy to squeegee out the air bubbles before the adhesive has a chance to grip.

-Phil

Tracy Allen

Won't the dish soap keep the adhesive from sticking? It is not a decal, and although the ink does dry and sticks very well to the polyester, I would not go so far as to call it waterproof. Once laminated, the labels can stay underwater without bleeding.

I am intrigued by the laser toner method that was in Peter's method linked to above. I wonder how scuff and weather resistant that is on its own, or if the laser labels also want lamination.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Tracy Allen said...
Won't the dish soap keep the adhesive from sticking?

Surprisingly enough, no. When the water eventually dries, the adhesive resumes it tackiness. An additional advantage for signmakers is that it allows repositioning after the vinyl is initially placed.

-Phil

Tubular

Tracy Allen said...

I am intrigued by the laser toner method that was in Peter's method linked to above. I wonder how scuff and weather resistant that is on its own, or if the laser labels also want lamination.

I've used the Jac polylaser labels for many years with excellent results. Weather resistance and durability is excellent. Scuffing is also much improved as the toner really seems to stick to that surface very well, at least in the HP / Lexmark printers I've used.

JAC have since been bought by someone else, not sure if they are still available. Avery have a very similar one. I bought a whole heap of samples in a couple of years ago, here's a couple of US links
www.graytex.com/waterproof-paper.htm

An interesting use for such synthetic papers is printing maps for use in underwater caving/caverning. That strikes me as a pretty good test.

Re the original question - there was someone here maybe 6 months ago using laser obliteration to make clear patches on a laminated panel. Then they overpainted the back to get an effect very similar to modern CRO panels. Anyone remember any details? I can't find the thread. I hate that...

Post Edited (Tubular) : 1/24/2010 8:18:29 AM GMT

Peter Jakacki

Ditto tubular's remarks regarding durability of the laser labels as the color toner is different and bonds well to the polyester label. The labels are indeed water and oil resistant etc. Of course you can scuff them, but not at all easily. There is clear stick on laminate that you can also get if you are really worried (although I have never bothered). Here in Oz I use Marbig "Quick Laminate" #91180 as they are crystal clear and tough and easy to apply.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
*Peter*

BradC

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...

Tracy Allen said...
Won't the dish soap keep the adhesive from sticking?

Surprisingly enough, no. When the water eventually dries, the adhesive resumes it tackiness. An additional advantage for signmakers is that it allows repositioning after the vinyl is initially placed.

I've used this trick to put 15 x 1 foot stickers on boat hulls. I was taught it years ago when I was using decals on models. A squirt gun with a bit of dish soap in the water works wonders. For whatever reason, as the water slowly dries out the dish soap just becomes inert to the adhesives. Makes bubble removal a snap. Old credit cards make great squeegees.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Life may be "too short", but it's the longest thing we ever do.

Don M

I would like to thank everyone for their ideas and suggestions. I bought some of the Avery weatherproof label paper #15516. This paper looks to be somewhat promising as it seems durable.

I also experimented today with using some translucent page dividers and some clear plastic file folder material. These materials are the type of material I was hoping to find. I think it is a polyester type material. I cut them into 8 1/2 x 11" pieces and tried them in my laser printer using Publisher and setting the print to be reversed and mirrored. Somewhat succesful although the toner does not fully bond to the plastic (polyester?). Looking into this further I think if one were to use a dye sublimation printer to print onto polyester type material I might really have something.

What I am also going to try is using the weatherproof label paper underneath this polyester material for durability and protection.

Does anyone have any ideas for cutting out (punching out?) holes and / or windows in this material? I used an exacto knife but a punch type device would be nicer to get a cleaner / straighter edge.

I have attached a couple photos showing the page divider material with the printing on the revese side.

Mike2545

Don, For my project, I applied the decal then cut out the holes with an Exacto knife

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Mike2545

Peter Jakacki

@Don: If it didn't bond then you weren't using the right stuff. Also, a mono laser's toner might not work as well, especially the older types. I know that the color toner is mixed with a polymer such as polyester resin and this fuses to the paper or in the case of the labels, another polyester base.

As for holes, I avoid them, let the light shine through!. Actually, the polyester is thinner and less opaque to transmitted light than paper, so this works well to leave the led area blank. But if I do cut edges I just use a regular craft knife (Exacto type) or use a punch for holes, although it's not ideal. To make it a bit easier when cutting edges I try to use a border that is a similar color to the edge but lighter so that I can see where to cut and if it's not perfect then at least you don't have obvious white bits glaring back at you. On a black edge I use some gray around it.

Now I have done scores and scores or different labels this way and shipped live product to big customers with it too, that's how good it is. So for protos and small runs I just use this method. The OpenOffice Draw program is an ideal program to use to create the layers and objects as it's so easy to use yet by hitting F4 I can punch in exact position, size, rotation, corners etc.

I have attached a sample label in this format. I even have little labels for the keypad that blend in so well into a black keypad that they look the real deal.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
*Peter*

Tracy Allen

I'm going to try out some of these tricks for printing and laminating. The laser printer method looks really sharp, Peter, and it makes me want to get a color laser printer.

A leather anvil punch works very well in this kind of material for small holes, if you do need them for controls or leds or screws, much cleaner than a paper punch/die.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com

wjsteele

If your material is thick enough, you can use a "nibbler" tool. We use them on aircraft when we need to cut the aluminum to a precise fit.

It works on wood, plastic and metal.

Bill

Don M

I think I am going to try using some Mylar (polyester) sheets that you can buy online at eplastics.com. .007 thick. Looks clear as glass. Looking at purchasing a Xerox Phaser solid ink color printer to do my graphics. I contacted a keypad manufacturer and in order to get the price low enough I need to buy quite a few. Plus there are upfront setup and art charges. I figured once I paid that to them I would end up stuck with that design. So if I take approximately the same amount of money and purchase one of these printers I can then enjoy the benefits of owning something for the money (tax deduction !) plus I can make changes on the fly.

Here's some links:

http://www.office.xerox.com/printers/color-printers/phaser-8560/enus.html
http://www.ssi-electronics.com/default.aspx?pageId=2
http://www.eplastics.com/Plastic/Clear_Polyester_Film;jsessionid=0a010b421f431f41d214c1ac4b72864db56a83976e44.e3eSc38TaNqNe34Pa38Ta3aMbxf0
http://www.rshughes.com/products/021200_18408.html?ref=g&refcp=froogle

Post Edited (Don M) : 2/5/2010 2:47:34 AM GMT

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)

Be sure to examine a print sample from the Phaser before you buy one. The "solid ink" is basically wax. Imagine spraying molten crayon on something. As a result, the printed output has a rather waxy feel to it and cracks when creased. At least that was my impression several years back. Maybe they've improved their media and process since then, but I wouldn't buy one without checking it out first. And please let us know what you find out.

-Phil

Don M

Phil,

I do intend to try somewhere before I buy. I will be doing a reverse print so the finished side will be protected. Thanks for your input.