I'm so confused
rjo_
Posts: 1,825
This doesn't matter much in everyday life... but when you are trying to explain it as I am at the moment, it does help to be right[noparse]:)[/noparse]
I have always understood batteries in the following way... first you put two different metals in an acid (or alkaline) bath... we all agree on this. This creates a voltage potential between the metal metals... I think we agree on this.
Here is how I have always understood this to happen:
An acid has more available hydrogen ions, which have a positive charge, than hydroxy ions (O-H), which carry a negative charge. The acid is an acid because the hydroxy ions are tied up by a larger molecule. The net charge of the acid solution is zero, but freely swimming around in the water will be more hydrogen ions than hydroxy ions.
When a hydrogen ion comes in contact with a metal... it cannot enter the metal but there is a local attraction between the positive charge of the hydrogen ion and the negative charge of the electrons in the metal, which will be pulled slightly toward the surface, where the hydrogen ions are. Likewise, when the molecule with the associated hydroxy ion comes into contact with the same metal, electrons in that metal will tend to be displaced away from the surface of the metal toward the inside of the metal. This creates small regions near the surface of the metal, where electrons are being pull and pushed around by very small charge separations on the surface, but the pulling and pushing will be at slightly different energies. There is a difference between metals in these energies... so that the motions of the electrons in the different metal will have different energies... and when we connect the two metals, these differences in energies will cause electrons with higher energies in one metal to flow to the metal with electrons with slightly lower energies, in nearly the same way that heat flows from hot to cold areas.
Is this right?
I have always understood batteries in the following way... first you put two different metals in an acid (or alkaline) bath... we all agree on this. This creates a voltage potential between the metal metals... I think we agree on this.
Here is how I have always understood this to happen:
An acid has more available hydrogen ions, which have a positive charge, than hydroxy ions (O-H), which carry a negative charge. The acid is an acid because the hydroxy ions are tied up by a larger molecule. The net charge of the acid solution is zero, but freely swimming around in the water will be more hydrogen ions than hydroxy ions.
When a hydrogen ion comes in contact with a metal... it cannot enter the metal but there is a local attraction between the positive charge of the hydrogen ion and the negative charge of the electrons in the metal, which will be pulled slightly toward the surface, where the hydrogen ions are. Likewise, when the molecule with the associated hydroxy ion comes into contact with the same metal, electrons in that metal will tend to be displaced away from the surface of the metal toward the inside of the metal. This creates small regions near the surface of the metal, where electrons are being pull and pushed around by very small charge separations on the surface, but the pulling and pushing will be at slightly different energies. There is a difference between metals in these energies... so that the motions of the electrons in the different metal will have different energies... and when we connect the two metals, these differences in energies will cause electrons with higher energies in one metal to flow to the metal with electrons with slightly lower energies, in nearly the same way that heat flows from hot to cold areas.
Is this right?
Comments
Who (in his right mind) would look at the flow of water in a river and insist that the actual current is in the opposite direction?
I have repeatedly corrected myself on this, only to come back later and be confused all over again.
Can't this be fixed?
I know what you mean. Who's going to be the first to change the labeling on their schematics? Not me!
Probably better to find a way to force it to make sense.
For instance, what makes a helium balloon rise? Gravity! The force responsible is opposite to the observed result. The same applies to a river.
Works for me anyway...
Rich H
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.
The Prop has pins that can be configured as either input or output. Let's talk about output. In output configuration, the pin is a voltage source and what comes out usually goes to ground. So, to actually explain this the way it is to kids(and old people), we want them to remember that electrons flow in through the output ... so the output is actually an input and electrons actually flow out of the input. So, the output is an input and the input is an output... How is that helpful?
I wouldn't expect anyone to change what he is doing after he has done it his whole life, but how about "new electronics" ... we could talk about real current and real electrons... and if the diagram didn't say "NEW Current or NEW Battery0." The kids would know to ignore it. That way old people could use old batteries and old diagrams and kids could do it right... and ignore everything that is old, which is what they want to do, anyway[noparse]:)[/noparse]
New math... new electronics. It's about time that we called an output an output.
After we get done reforming health care... maybe we can get Congress to look into this and help us out[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Or I could stop moaning about this and get on with my life... I suppose[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Duffer
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Any technology, sufficiently developed, is indistinguishable from magic.· A.C. Clark(RIP)
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
PG
Duffer
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Any technology, sufficiently developed, is indistinguishable from magic.· A.C. Clark(RIP)
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
PG
Peter KG6LSE
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
LOL
I think you're missing the joke... www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enUS361US361&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=9mm
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Powered by enthusiasm
Oh, now I see.
At first I thought he was talking about the size of his condoms.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
PG