Google Lunar X-Prize

Jack Crenshaw

Any of you ultra-experimenter types looking at this program?

http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

Any interest? My guess is that you guys would love the challenge.

Jack

KenBash

Hi Jack,

Several of the people that come and go on the Parallax forum HAVE been interested in the project and went through the process of laying out the foundation of a team. They had a fairly good concept for the rover but the way that Google has the project defined makes it incredibly hard for a team to finance this type of project. As I understand it, Google would have all the rights to things like documentary films and such. I think the prize is something like twenty million dollars which seems like a lot at the onset, but once you actually get into the hardware design phase, you quickly realize that even WINNING the prize would very likely be a money losing venture.
I personally love the idea of competing for this type of thing, and I'm one of the dreamers who grew up in the '60's believing the only long term hope for our planet is development of the resources of space. However... the short-term greed and goals of a country that no longer believes in doing visionary things, combined with an educational system that only gives lip service to advancement in high technology makes it unlikely that it's going to get much better in the near term.
We may have to wait for China to be sending us daily reports on their lunar colony before we as a country realize what we have lost. I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but all of the people who once walked on the moon are old men now and those of us who watched them as children are not far behind.
I believe that the brains and ability to make a project like winning the Lunar X prize a success are right here on the Parallax web site. However, they are also a group of realist. It's one thing to invest a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars into a project for the "Joy" of doing it, but something you invest your heart and soul into along with your lives savings should have a better chance of being something looked back on one day as more than a "Stunt".
Please! someone prove me wrong! Something inside of me still wants to believe in great things.

KB

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
" Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "

··············································· ( R.A.H. )
····································

Tubular

What a great challenge.

There was a great 6-part BBC series "Rocket Man" recently. Inspirational stuff if you ever get a chance to see it
www.robsongreen.com/rocket_man/index.shtml

Youtube trailer preview
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf2sa8V8g4E
www.youtube.com/user/coastalproductions#p/a/u/2/PwZYpVEmdS0


Just waiting for Chip to match the offer for getting first Prop to the moon...

pharseid

I was a member of the Lunar X group for some time. You should do a search for Lunar X Prize, there should still be a thread in the Sandbox. Although those posts only represent the earliest interest. I found that, even as an academic exercise, it's an inspiring project to work on.

Like Ken, I'm a child of the 60's too. It's fun to look back at some of the aerospace programs that I read about as a youth (now declassified, so we can look at the intimate details). It's pretty late in the game now, but I wonder if it would be feasible to attempt the prize as the ultimate RC project. Turbo-rocket plane first stage to Mach 5 (inspired by the British hypersonic program), rocket plane to Mach 15 (inspired by the X-15 and Dyna-Soar), third stage to orbit. Repeat and assemble translunar vehicle and lander in orbit. Possibly using the empty fuel and oxidizer tanks as coaxial plasma guns for high impulse propulsion for the trip to the moon (also keeps the third stage from becoming space junk).

See how easy it would be! Now that I've done the hard work, I'll be expecting you guys to take care of the minor detail of implementing it.

-phar

pacman

pharseid said...

See how easy it would be! Now that I've done the hard work, I'll be expecting you guys to take care of the minor detail of implementing it.

-phar

Let me guess, you are in a "management" role....

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
=================
The future is in our hands.
Which way to the future?
=================

pharseid

Exactly.

simonl

Whilst the LunarXPrize might be waaay beyond our means, maybe we (or Parallax) could dream-up something similar that would be a real stretch of our abilities - maybe fostering group effort? I for one would love to be part of something that brings back the wonder of the space race. (Can't remember how many times I've watched Apollo 13!)

As for the prize - I'd be happy if it covered the cost of doing the task (OK, there may need to be some sort of limit, LOL)

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Cheers,
Simon

---

www.norfolkhelicopterclub.com

Announcement: To cut costs in the current economic climate, we have switched-off the light at the end of the tunnel.

pharseid

Since there is not a lot of Prop-related content in this thread, it may be time to move it to the Sandbox. In regards to Simonl's suggestion, I have to say that my earlier post about going to the Moon as a RC project was half serious. I work in the metal finishing business and I'm aware of a relatively easy technique for making state-of-the-art refractory materials. One of the things that occurred to me as a member of the LunarXPrize group was that it was probably pretty doable to make an RC version of the X-15. I'm not an RC person and I don't know what restrictions they're under (I highly suspect that they have to keep it subsonic). But it seems technically feasible. Anybody here know anything about hypersonic aerodynamics?

-phar

W9GFO

Last I checked, any rocket propelled hobby type vehicle is prohibited from having any form of active guidance. There is an impressive video out there of a Scale B-52 launching a rocket powered RC X-1, as far as I know, that would be illegal. Also illegal is the RC plane which launches rockets.

I have in my possession a 95% complete 1/6 scale Hybrid rocket powered, guided, supersonic X-Prize contender vehicle. If Paul Allen hadn't hired Rutan to claim the prize, we would have had to find a way to legally fly it.

"Money is the lubrication of life."

Rich H

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.

pharseid

W9,

That's about what I thought. But is an air-breathing, supersonic, RC·craft illegal?

Also interested in the vehicle you mentioned.

-phar

W9GFO

I don't recall seeing anything that makes a certain velocity illegal for RC purposes. The biggest problem with a supersonic RC craft is going to be keeping it at the hobby level. Just how would you keep it in view? It would no doubt have to fall under the new UAS definition which the FAA is not friendly to these days. Though, without a docket number to their UAS policy, there is no "law" against them.

Couldn't find a picture of the flight vehicle but here is the plug;



Rich H

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
The Simple Servo Tester, a kit from Gadget Gangster.

CannibalRobotics

Is there anything in the LunarX-prize that says it has to be "legal".

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Signature space for rent!
Send $1 to CannibalRobotics.com.

VIRAND

CannibalRobotics said...
Is there anything in the LunarX-prize that says it has to be "legal".

No more keeping us down! ... Down with Newton's Law of Gravitation!

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
VIRAND, If you spent as much time SPINNING as you do Trolling the Forums,
you'd have tons of awesome code to post! (Note to self)

CHIPKEN

Jack,

Having worked in aerospace for thirty years I can tell you nothing is easy or cheap when it comes to space type projects. Even the simple projects require a lot of analysis and testing just to assure workable hardware. It takes a lot of special engineering skills·to get the project going. Mangement was not a really big cost factor but that engineering talent was the driving cost. Hardware cost was·large but technical labor was the driver cost in almost all projects.·Many engineers·worked long hours·for free just to keep the cost down. Frankly I don't think the robot cost is a big factor as the cost of travel to the moon would be. Going back to the moon should be done again and I hope Propeller controlled robots will be the surface animal next time.

Chuck

heater

I had to say this already on a similar thread here but here it is again:

It's hopeless, everyone knows that propellers don't work in space[noparse]:)[/noparse]

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.

pharseid

Yes, when I was on the LunarXPrize group, I came to find that the cost of rad-hard gate arrays·can be·unbelievable (6 figures). I've just started getting into vacuum technology for other reasons; but this thread has me thinking about testing out some things I've mentioned and others I haven't, the coaxial plasma gun idea, and then, when a hole burns through the outer tube of that, using laser ablation of the parts for propulsion. But as an academic exercise, because I think the XPrize idea is dead.

W9: It must be frustrating to get that far and not see your rocket plane fly. Perhaps someone here with a secret island base in the South Pacific can test it some day.

Another worthy project has occurred to me and I'll throw it out to see how you guys feel about it. A fascinating milestone that happened in my youth was the dive of the Trieste to the bottom of the Marianas Trench. I'd always assumed after that that it had probably been repeated many times, but I learned a couple years ago that it had never been done again. It certainly wouldn't be a trivial project to create an autonomous submersible to dive to the bottom of the trench, film it and surface again.

-phar

Ale

I was watching Cosmos (again) the other day and Sagan kept saying "If we do not blow up ourselves before we should be reaching the stars a way or another". He is right in both arguments: Money should be spent in useful developments (not the ones that blow things(beings) up) and progress (not that I didn't knew it before...).
Governments do not seem interested in the space exploration so the only way is private funding. I'm all for a space program !

Note: I was wondering where my post went when I found it in the (really neat but-I-spent-already-too-much-in-"entertainment"-already) PSB thread.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU

Post Edited (Ale) : 1/12/2010 2:31:16 PM GMT

pharseid

Of course, if we do a really good job of blowing ourselves up, we may be reaching the stars too. You have to be optimistic.

I just read that James Cameron is supposed to be making a dive into the Marianas Trench this year in a specially built submersible. If·I did that, I would have to do it alone or I'm afraid my screaming would eventually bother the other passengers (I'm a little claustrophobic). It also turns out that on 2 occasions, ROS's have made the dive. So a little of the bloom is off that rose.

We just spent what, maybe 10 Apollo programs on the "stimulus". I wonder what we could have got for that if we had spent it on something useful?

-phar

Ale

pharseid said...
We just spent what, maybe 10 Apollo programs on the "stimulus". I wonder what we could have got for that if we had spent it on something useful?

fat chance :-(

Everything would be better in the hands of engineers...

If the money spent in making movies would be put to something useful.... maybe we could go to mars and maybe again, if they actually went, to the moon. Look, I was reading at slashdot that people spend >40 Mega$ in making a game ! a silly shoot 'em up game !. All that artistic prowess could design and build landers instead!.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Visit some of my articles at Propeller Wiki:
MATH on the propeller propeller.wikispaces.com/MATH
pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL020
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU