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edible wire

mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
edited 2009-12-15 06:36 in General Discussion
I am trying to figure out a way to run electrical wires through food. must be non toxic and edible. so far only idea is use licorice and salt water. any other ideas?

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  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-12-14 03:15
    Why?
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-14 03:18
    Carbon bucky balls ?? nano tubes?

    it May be possable but I need to know what kind of power and siganal we are dealing with and also what kind of impedance.


    ( this reminds me of the time I wanted to invent a spandex based extension cord ..)

    Peter KG6LSE

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    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
    LOL
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-12-14 03:23
    Rather than just using plain salt water, how about gelatin mixed in. You could use something like ascorbic or acetic acid for conductivity as well.

    How do you plan to connect to the conductors? You don't want most metals directly in contact with the food.
  • TubularTubular Posts: 4,718
    edited 2009-12-14 03:26
    McTriv,

    I've often wondered how conductive those silver balls used for cake decorating are? Could you string those together?

    Need to know what you're trying to 'light' ... how many volts, current etc
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-12-14 03:36
    Indian desserts often include decoration made of silver or gold leaf. Those are applied to the surface, though, and I'm sure they're no more than a few microns thick. 'Never tried a conductivity experiment, however — 'too consumed by their deliciousness.

    This has got to be one of the more unusual requests to appear in the forum. Enquiring Minds Want to Know TM: what is your application?

    -Phil
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-14 03:36
    Why ?..

    Led lighting in gingerbread house.

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    24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 03:43
    mctrivia said...
    Why ?..

    Led lighting in gingerbread house.

    Last time I baked cookies with LEDs, gallium arsenide was still listed as a poison. Also, they break your teeth when you bite into one too hard. So tell your guests to bite softly. In any case, if you must, how about trying graphite? It's used in food grade lubricants and by itself will conduct electricity. Note that amorphous carbon will NOT conduct, so don't try burning your gingerbread house just to make it conductive - it won't work.

    freaked.gif

    www.tribology.com/food_bht.htm
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-12-14 03:50
    Decorations don't always have to be edible as long as they're safe in contact with food. People often use dried pasta in decorations. I wouldn't call them really edible although they're safe and could be ingested. Food grade aluminum foil would also work, but would clearly have to be placed so it wouldn't be accidentally ingested. You could use food grade plastic tubing (like straws) for structural support (and for routing power) with twisted aluminum foil inside for conductivity.

    Post Edited (Mike Green) : 12/14/2009 3:55:57 AM GMT
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 04:01
    Are there any string-like pastas or candies that can serve as optical fibers?
    Leave the LEDs cemented to the base where nobody could accidently eat them, then pipe the light up to little candies that will blink and glow.
    Wintergreen oil will fluoresce in UV, so... hmmm, on second thought, better not use UV. You don't want your guests mutating before your eyes.

    As for any kind of foil, I'm not sure how galvanic it will get with dental fillings and such. shocked.gif
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-14 04:01
    Ice !!! might work !! LOL

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    "Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
    LOL
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 04:06
    Peter KG6LSE said...
    Ice !!! might work !! LOL

    Actually ice is a bad conductor, and salt water when frozen, tends to exclude the salts so the frozen sea water doesn't conduct too well, either.

    mctrivia,
    just curious: were you one of those kids in school that, when you made a model volcano for earth science class, had it erupt with real lava?

    Yes, I thought so.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-14 04:23
    I was thinking of Fiber Optics Idea ...Not for power ..LOL

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    "Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
    LOL
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-14 04:28
    if it is possible 0603 LEDs are tiny and would not pose a chocking hazard.

    i know for a fact gold foil will work. very thin can be easily biten through and will conduct.

    as for real lava nope but I did make models with little lights.

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    24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 04:28
    Peter KG6LSE said...
    I was thinking of Fiber Optics Idea ...Not for power ..LOL

    Sounds like a cool idea!

    Actually, if I remember correctly, water ice at ~2 Gigapascals will conduct electricity quite well. So technically your idea could work for electrons, too.


    lol.gif
  • DufferDuffer Posts: 374
    edited 2009-12-14 04:37
    Skin safe conductive ink! If it's safe for the skin, it should be OK on food, eh?

    http://www.bareconductive.com/home.html

    Duffer
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-14 04:40
    Ok that has to be the most awesome thing I have seen this month ! .. ( and I thought those conductive ink Silver repair pens were neat)

    Peter....

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    "Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
    LOL
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2009-12-14 04:45
    mctrivia

    How much current?

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  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-14 04:49
    only mA. enough power to run several LEDs. 32 max(1 per pin)

    Duffer just because something is safe for external application does not mean it is safe to ingest. But that is pretty cool.

    Ice will not work because it will melt. Need something that can last at least a week but not likely any longer.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-14 04:53
    Jello! might work for a fiber......

    Peter

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    "Carpe Ducktum" "seize the tape!!"
    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
    Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway. —Tanenbaum, Andrew S.
    LOL
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 05:03
    Transparent "gummy worms" for light pipes??? You might have to crank up the lumens to make their tips visible, however.

    candy.about.com/od/gumgelatinbasedcandy/r/gummyworms.htm


    Instead of coloring, I guess you could add a transparent flavor like pineapple or lemon or butyric acid.


    tongue.gif
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-12-14 06:27
    As it turns out, there's a patent on "fiber optic candy". You might be able to glean some good info from the patent application. (By the time the lawyers show up, the evidence will have been eaten! smile.gif )

    -Phil
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2009-12-14 06:43
    What type of food? Dessert? The Main Course?

    There are many foods that could be considered editable by some, but completely unpalatable to others.

    A Fire-Fly is probably editable, but not very palatable. smilewinkgrin.gif An effective light source though for small amounts of energy. Other bio-luminescent solutions could be synthesized perhaps... I don't know for sure. Would/Could it last a week? I don't know. Just a thought.

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    IC Layout Engineer
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  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-12-14 06:45
    Here are a couple online references for gelatin fiber optics:

    www.whitakercenter.org/pdf/Grades%209-12/9-12%20Color%20and%20Light/Gelatin%20Fiber%20Post.pdf
    www.math.unl.edu/~jump/Center1/Labs/foodscienceworkshop.pdf

    -Phil
  • $WMc%$WMc% Posts: 1,884
    edited 2009-12-14 07:29
    mctrivia

    How about IRON, yes iron.
    This is a needed element and it is found in just about every vitamin out there.
    Made into a paste with some base material, like Angle hair pasta

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    Post Edited ($WMc%) : 12/14/2009 7:34:47 AM GMT
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2009-12-14 07:50
    rather than use wires perhaps magnetic induction?

    Not sure if the leds are a good idea though, especially if young children are going to eat it unless the leds are in enclosures too big to get in young mouths.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-12-14 08:29
    You can OD on iron, you know. Vitamins contain mere milligrams of the stuff.

    -Phil
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-14 13:13
    Also vitamins contain iron oxide which does not conduct. I like the fiber ideas

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-12-14 13:16
    Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) said...
    You can OD on iron, you know. Vitamins contain mere milligrams of the stuff.

    Hemochromatosis. You really don't want it.

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  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-12-14 15:23
    So you pump the air out of some translucent pasta, see, and implant graphite electrodes on each end of the pasta, see, and then let in a little neon gas, see, and crank up the voltage with a big transformer, see, and now you've gotcherself a gingerbread house a la Las Vegas.
  • DufferDuffer Posts: 374
    edited 2009-12-14 15:53
    Food grade powdered graphite mixed with icing and piped onto the gingerbread to form 'wires'? It would end up being black, like the conductive ink, because of the amount of graphite required (experimentation required), but it might work.

    Graphite: A 5" pencil lead (Dixon Ticonderoga #2, soft)·measures just under 13 Ohms.

    Also, food grade oils containing graphite: http://www.tribology.com/food_bht.htm

    and: https://www.keytite.com/

    Duffer


    Post Edited (Duffer) : 12/14/2009 4:11:52 PM GMT
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