Looks like the guy behind the Hive retro Computer has made a very cool SID player ( using SIDcog of course :P ) with some leds and a butchered harddrive.
Nice to see some interest in the SIDcog emulator besides from me and Oldbit. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CX2E9Xh1hM&feature=player_embedded#
I finally ordered my sidstick and I'm planning on putting it together a little differently so I have a few questions. I know this isn't really a sidstick thread, but I'm sure you can help me.
Is there a reason the sidstick has a stereo out? The original sid was not capable of stereo sound, but is the sidcog capable of that? Does the sidcog by chance have separate outs for each channel (good god please say yes).
Can I use a 9v battery instead of the battery pack that comes with the sidstick?
I would really love for someone to work a midi clock into sidcog, since I have no programming ability whatsoever. Basically what I'm doing is casing the sidstick in a guitar pedal stomp box so I can easily trigger sid tracks to back me up while I play guitar. It should be pretty boss.
tenfold said...
Is there a reason the sidstick has a stereo out?
The original sid was not capable of stereo sound, but is the sidcog capable of that?
Does the sidcog by chance have separate outs for each channel (good god please say yes).
I don't know exactly what you mean by separate outs.. Do you mean 3 independant outputs, one for each SID channel?
Then the answare is NO.
The SIDstick is capable of stereo output, but the firmware only supports mono output at the moment.
Theoretically there are many different ways to achieve stereo sound with the SIDstick.
- Play the 3 SID channels in each (L and R) audio channel, with slightly different frequency between L/R. This will make the sound appear to come from all around you.
You are still limited to 3 SID channels tough.
- Play 3 SID channels to the left and 3 different SID channels to the right.
This way you can have twice as many SID channels as a real SID while having stereo sound.
- Mxing up to 18 SID channels at once with the help of a mixer-cog. This way you could pan each SID(3 channels) independently and even apply some sound FX.
tenfold said...
Can I use a 9v battery instead of the battery pack that comes with the sidstick?
It depends on wich voltage regulator that is used in the SIDstick, you will have to ask Nick (I can't remember).
tenfold said...
I would really love for someone to work a midi clock into sidcog, since I have no programming ability whatsoever. Basically what I'm doing is casing the sidstick in a guitar pedal stomp box so I can easily trigger sid tracks to back me up while I play guitar. It should be pretty boss.
That's a cool project.
I have some midi equipment, synthesiezers and the knowhow to do something like that, but at the moment I have got NOO time whatsoever. [noparse]:([/noparse]
Maybe someone else in the forum are interested in helping you out?
/Johannes
- Play the 3 SID channels in each (L and R) audio channel, with slightly different frequency between L/R. This will make the sound appear to come from all around you.
You are still limited to 3 SID channels tough.
- Play 3 SID channels to the left and 3 different SID channels to the right.
This way you can have twice as many SID channels as a real SID while having stereo sound.
- Mxing up to 18 SID channels at once with the help of a mixer-cog. This way you could pan each SID(3 channels) independently and even apply some sound FX.
These are all interesting ideas, but how would you write sid tunes with more than three channels in the first place?
tenfold said...
Is there a reason the sidstick has a stereo out?
The original sid was not capable of stereo sound, but is the sidcog capable of that?
Does the sidcog by chance have separate outs for each channel (good god please say yes).
The SIDstick hardware supports stereo output, although the current firmware puts the same audio out on both channels. See the schematic on the project page.
The regulator tops out at 6V input. See the datasheet.
I've found this awesome one hour mix of many great C64 tunes recorded from a real C64 equipt with a 6581 SID chip (the old version of the chip). g00nzor.free.fr/
filter_H = Highpass filtered sample
filter_B = Bandpass filtered sample
filter_L = Lowpass filtered sample
filter_freq = Cutoff frequency ( a value between 0 - 1, max freq = sample_rate/2 )
filter_resonance = Resonance amount ( a value between 0 - 1 )
input_sample = The incoming sample
If you for an instance want a bandpass filtered sample use: output_sample = filter_B
If you for an instance want a bandpass reject filter use: output_sample = filter_L + filter_H
The logarithmic envelope decay function works like this
I just tried your multimode filter, and it's really great!
Though the SID filters are 12dB/octave for low and high pass. For band pass it's 6dB/octave on either side of the cutoff.
I think running the filter code twice will be equivalent to a 12dB filter.
Another thing: the resonance seems to be inverted. Correct me if I'm wrong! But in my implementation, I get no resonance
when the param is 1, then full resonance at about 0.3 (I bet the limit is 1-sqrt(2)/2). Lower than that and it gets unstable.
Anyway, thanks for this simple piece of code, it's very useful!
I've been playing with SIDCog over the weekend. I was able to make some serious headway with SIDCog Monday afternoon,
learning some new techniques which weren't that obvious to me. (Probably to everyone else, but I thought I'd share anyway.)
I'd been trying to work the SIDCog player loop into my main program loop creating all kinds of timing havoc.
Finally it dawned on me to handle it this way...
CON
_clkmode = xtal1 + pll16x
_xinfreq = 5_000_000
playRate = 50'Hz
SD_PIN = 16
VAR
long stack[noparse][[/noparse]30]
byte buffer[noparse][[/noparse]25]
PUB start
sd.mount(SD_PIN) ' Mount SD card
SID.start ' Start the emulated SID in one cog
sd.popen(string("music.dmp"),"r") ' Open the tune
cognew(Songplayer,@stack[noparse][[/noparse]30]) ' Start a simple player in it's own cog.
'' main program continues while music plays....
PUB Songplayer
repeat
waitcnt(cnt+(clkfreq/playRate)) ' Wait one VBL
if( sd.pread(@buffer,25)) < 0 ' Read 25 bytes from SD card
SID.updateRegisters(@buffer) ' Write 25 byte to SIDcogs 25 registers
Perhaps it will be helpful to someone else.. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Oldbitcollector said...
I'd been trying to work the SIDCog player loop into my main program loop creating all kinds of timing havoc.
Finally it dawned on me to handle it this way...
Nice to see that your are doing stuff with SIDcog. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
On the C64 music and graphics were synced with the help of timer and vbl interrupts.
Since the propeller "lacks" interrupt "features" you will have to handle things differently.
There are two approaches:
1. Start a dedicated cog to handle music/sound fx. (Like you have done in the example)
2. Have some kind of frame/main counter to sync things to certain intervals or/and circumstances.
Approach 2 can be quite tricky to handle and is prone to "lag" when much is happening at the same time.
As soon as the graphics starts to go slow the audio will be affected as well.
SIDcog is meant to be like a real SID and it's up to you to fill the SID-registers with data to produce sound/music.
However, I'm working on a new "retro like" sound engine named Retronitus ( retro=behind, sonitus=noise or "noise from the past" )
It will pretty much be a mix of the AY38910 and the SID with 6 channels and possible with built in music capabilities.
danielx said...
I just tried your multimode filter, and it's really great!
Thanks!
danielx said...
Though the SID filters are 12dB/octave for low and high pass. For band pass it's 6dB/octave on either side of the cutoff.
I think running the filter code twice will be equivalent to a 12dB filter.
Yes you are right, but it wouldn't be possible at a sample rate of 31kHz. [noparse]:([/noparse]
danielx said...
Another thing: the resonance seems to be inverted. Correct me if I'm wrong! But in my implementation, I get no resonance
when the param is 1, then full resonance at about 0.3 (I bet the limit is 1-sqrt(2)/2). Lower than that and it gets unstable.
Anyway, thanks for this simple piece of code, it's very useful!
You are right in the above assumptions as well. [noparse];)[/noparse]
Thanks Linus !
When will we see another great propeller project from you?
I know PICs are more challenging to make things with, but i'm sure you could achieve some ground breaking stuff with the propeller.
To this day Turbulence is the most outstanding demo ever made on the Propeller. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
You may be interested in my upcoming project (almost done now), a graphical chiptune player for the propeller.
It currently supports SID 8580 and AY 3891X emulation.
Btw, I LOVE your Chipophone. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Okay, here's a short introduction to what I have done with the SIDCog:
- Attached MCP3208 8-Channel 12-Bit ADC to the Propeller with 8
potentiometers in order to control Cutoff, Resonance, Attack, Decay,
Sustain, Release and Volume with analog potentiometers. This gives some
kind of feeling as controling an analog modular synthesizer as the DAC
with 100ksps is fast enough for a "near-realtime" control - you don't hear
any delay.
- Made a 100% midi controllable synthesizer using the SIDcog - the code
is still all "hacked" together, but it works. Will publish some stuff if I
clean it up.
- MIDI seems to work without any problems (there is some little problem -
it seems that a byte gets discarded sometimes when playing some tunes
at >240BPM + live Cutoff & Resonance control. This might be an issue
with the MIDI bandwidth capabilities (31.250 Baud). I'll check out what's
going on with my logic analyzer soon.
- Combined mode (MIDI data + Analog control) is also working. I'm using
an additional Cog for processing the ADC data and modifying the
corresponding variables.
- I've succesfully written a VGA debugger for the SID serial player which
shows the SID registers live on a VGA output. This is quite useful for
debugging purposes, as this is working in it's own COG and the drawing
routine is a lot faster than the QT display function.
- I've made various experiments with the SIDCog - e.g. adding a RNG
which can be seeded with a predefined value
- I've simulated some kind of retro drum sounds - e.g. setting the
Waveform to Noise and adjusting the ADSR as following: 0 1 1 9
so that a "Hall-like" effect appears - this is great for snare sounds for
experimental music and electronic music. Striking the MIDI note
100 makes it sound pretty nice. If you're decreasing the frequency
by 1Hz each 10ms down to MIDI note 80, it sounds like some low-drop
snare (some kind of the early Depeche Mode sound).
You may be interested in my upcoming project (almost done now), a graphical chiptune player for the propeller.
It currently supports SID 8580 and AY 3891X emulation.
Hey, do you have any spin code or video? Sounds great!
Comments
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
I think we could have 6 SIDcogs running at once. 6*3=18 sound channels.
One cog for mixing them togheter and one for communciation.
@Cluso99
Did you finally managed to test SIDcog out with my serial player?
Btw, I found this on YouTube www.youtube.com/watch?v=1RR_qbREDQs
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·
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)·
· Prop OS: SphinxOS·, PropDos , PropCmd··· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBlade Props: www.cluso.bluemagic.biz
Nice to see some interest in the SIDcog emulator besides from me and Oldbit.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CX2E9Xh1hM&feature=player_embedded#
Here are some pictures of the project as well.
hive-project.de/content/1665
Post Edited (Ahle2) : 3/23/2010 9:14:40 PM GMT
I demand a completed tracker/player for SIDcog.. [noparse]:)[/noparse] [noparse]:)[/noparse] <SMIRK>
(referring to your comment in the HERO thread.)
Actually, I just want some easy ways to put sound and music in my games.
OBC
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LOL... Yes it would have been nice to have an easy to use game audio object.
At the moment I'm quite busy with other things [noparse]:([/noparse]
I finally ordered my sidstick and I'm planning on putting it together a little differently so I have a few questions. I know this isn't really a sidstick thread, but I'm sure you can help me.
Is there a reason the sidstick has a stereo out? The original sid was not capable of stereo sound, but is the sidcog capable of that? Does the sidcog by chance have separate outs for each channel (good god please say yes).
Can I use a 9v battery instead of the battery pack that comes with the sidstick?
I would really love for someone to work a midi clock into sidcog, since I have no programming ability whatsoever. Basically what I'm doing is casing the sidstick in a guitar pedal stomp box so I can easily trigger sid tracks to back me up while I play guitar. It should be pretty boss.
Thanks d00ds.
I don't know exactly what you mean by separate outs.. Do you mean 3 independant outputs, one for each SID channel?
Then the answare is NO.
The SIDstick is capable of stereo output, but the firmware only supports mono output at the moment.
Theoretically there are many different ways to achieve stereo sound with the SIDstick.
- Play the 3 SID channels in each (L and R) audio channel, with slightly different frequency between L/R. This will make the sound appear to come from all around you.
You are still limited to 3 SID channels tough.
- Play 3 SID channels to the left and 3 different SID channels to the right.
This way you can have twice as many SID channels as a real SID while having stereo sound.
- Mxing up to 18 SID channels at once with the help of a mixer-cog. This way you could pan each SID(3 channels) independently and even apply some sound FX.
It depends on wich voltage regulator that is used in the SIDstick, you will have to ask Nick (I can't remember).
That's a cool project.
I have some midi equipment, synthesiezers and the knowhow to do something like that, but at the moment I have got NOO time whatsoever. [noparse]:([/noparse]
Maybe someone else in the forum are interested in helping you out?
/Johannes
These are all interesting ideas, but how would you write sid tunes with more than three channels in the first place?
The SIDstick hardware supports stereo output, although the current firmware puts the same audio out on both channels. See the schematic on the project page.
The regulator tops out at 6V input. See the datasheet.
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That's good to know. I can add separate outs for each, and possibly run one through effects or add a switcher for them...hmmm.
Excuse my n00bishness, but I could just get a regulator that tops out at 9v then right?
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g00nzor.free.fr/
I just tried your multimode filter, and it's really great!
Though the SID filters are 12dB/octave for low and high pass. For band pass it's 6dB/octave on either side of the cutoff.
I think running the filter code twice will be equivalent to a 12dB filter.
Another thing: the resonance seems to be inverted. Correct me if I'm wrong! But in my implementation, I get no resonance
when the param is 1, then full resonance at about 0.3 (I bet the limit is 1-sqrt(2)/2). Lower than that and it gets unstable.
Anyway, thanks for this simple piece of code, it's very useful!
/Daniel
learning some new techniques which weren't that obvious to me. (Probably to everyone else, but I thought I'd share anyway.)
I'd been trying to work the SIDCog player loop into my main program loop creating all kinds of timing havoc.
Finally it dawned on me to handle it this way...
CON _clkmode = xtal1 + pll16x _xinfreq = 5_000_000 playRate = 50'Hz SD_PIN = 16 VAR long stack[noparse][[/noparse]30] byte buffer[noparse][[/noparse]25] PUB start sd.mount(SD_PIN) ' Mount SD card SID.start ' Start the emulated SID in one cog sd.popen(string("music.dmp"),"r") ' Open the tune cognew(Songplayer,@stack[noparse][[/noparse]30]) ' Start a simple player in it's own cog. '' main program continues while music plays.... PUB Songplayer repeat waitcnt(cnt+(clkfreq/playRate)) ' Wait one VBL if( sd.pread(@buffer,25)) < 0 ' Read 25 bytes from SD card SID.updateRegisters(@buffer) ' Write 25 byte to SIDcogs 25 registersPerhaps it will be helpful to someone else.. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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???
I guess it depends if you want to trample buffer[noparse]/noparse [noparse];)[/noparse]
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"Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?"
Thanks for sharing!
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I'm just 7*1027 atoms floating through time and space in close formation. -KF4IXM
On the C64 music and graphics were synced with the help of timer and vbl interrupts.
Since the propeller "lacks" interrupt "features" you will have to handle things differently.
There are two approaches:
1. Start a dedicated cog to handle music/sound fx. (Like you have done in the example)
2. Have some kind of frame/main counter to sync things to certain intervals or/and circumstances.
Approach 2 can be quite tricky to handle and is prone to "lag" when much is happening at the same time.
As soon as the graphics starts to go slow the audio will be affected as well.
SIDcog is meant to be like a real SID and it's up to you to fill the SID-registers with data to produce sound/music.
However, I'm working on a new "retro like" sound engine named Retronitus ( retro=behind, sonitus=noise or "noise from the past" )
It will pretty much be a mix of the AY38910 and the SID with 6 channels and possible with built in music capabilities.
/Ahle2
/Daniel
I've searched the internet for the file, but the files I found seem to be incompitable for some reason.
/Ahle2
When will we see another great propeller project from you?
I know PICs are more challenging to make things with, but i'm sure you could achieve some ground breaking stuff with the propeller.
To this day Turbulence is the most outstanding demo ever made on the Propeller. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
You may be interested in my upcoming project (almost done now), a graphical chiptune player for the propeller.
It currently supports SID 8580 and AY 3891X emulation.
Btw, I LOVE your Chipophone. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Okay, here's a short introduction to what I have done with the SIDCog:
- Attached MCP3208 8-Channel 12-Bit ADC to the Propeller with 8
potentiometers in order to control Cutoff, Resonance, Attack, Decay,
Sustain, Release and Volume with analog potentiometers. This gives some
kind of feeling as controling an analog modular synthesizer as the DAC
with 100ksps is fast enough for a "near-realtime" control - you don't hear
any delay.
- Made a 100% midi controllable synthesizer using the SIDcog - the code
is still all "hacked" together, but it works. Will publish some stuff if I
clean it up.
- MIDI seems to work without any problems (there is some little problem -
it seems that a byte gets discarded sometimes when playing some tunes
at >240BPM + live Cutoff & Resonance control. This might be an issue
with the MIDI bandwidth capabilities (31.250 Baud). I'll check out what's
going on with my logic analyzer soon.
- Combined mode (MIDI data + Analog control) is also working. I'm using
an additional Cog for processing the ADC data and modifying the
corresponding variables.
- I've succesfully written a VGA debugger for the SID serial player which
shows the SID registers live on a VGA output. This is quite useful for
debugging purposes, as this is working in it's own COG and the drawing
routine is a lot faster than the QT display function.
- I've made various experiments with the SIDCog - e.g. adding a RNG
which can be seeded with a predefined value
- I've simulated some kind of retro drum sounds - e.g. setting the
Waveform to Noise and adjusting the ADSR as following: 0 1 1 9
so that a "Hall-like" effect appears - this is great for snare sounds for
experimental music and electronic music. Striking the MIDI note
100 makes it sound pretty nice. If you're decreasing the frequency
by 1Hz each 10ms down to MIDI note 80, it sounds like some low-drop
snare (some kind of the early Depeche Mode sound).
Hey, do you have any spin code or video? Sounds great!