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5v Long Run — Parallax Forums

5v Long Run

rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
edited 2009-12-07 02:13 in General Discussion
Hey all,

Suppose I have a string of eight relays wired in parallel, connected by Cat 5 cable, spread out over 500 feet.
If I have a CMOS4050 sending a 5v signal down the line to activate the relays, will the signal make it to all the relays without too much line loss? They need 3.3v as a minimum to trigger.

Will this work? My calculations for 24AWG Cat5 says yes, but I don't have enough experience to be comfortable with my unverified calculations, and unfortunately I don't have 500' to test with.
If not, what would the simplest way to boost/repeat the signal be?

Looking for simplest possible solution here.

Many thanks!

Alex

Comments

  • mikedivmikediv Posts: 825
    edited 2009-12-07 00:28
    rapscal how much power do the relays take to operate? To make the proper calculation we or I at least would need to know how much power each relay takes to operate it .. and your supply volts/amps do you have the data sheet for the 4050? Should be easy to figure out
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-07 00:31
    .0302 ohm/foot * 1000=30.2ohm

    e=i*r
    5-3.3=i*30.2
    i=0.056

    so the math says as long as the relays total current is less then 56mA you are ok.

    i think it unlikely you relays draw less then 7mA each. There are some ways to cheat this though. for example if the relays are only on for short pulses you can have a large cap beside each relay.

    your best bet would be to use a higher line voltage or have a boost power supply at each one. using 24V would be a cheaper options requiring only a transister and second power supply.

    24V would allow each relay to draw 86mA each.

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  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 00:36
    Here are the datasheets.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2009-12-07 00:42
    HI

    This might help a bit..

    CMOS gates are not to great at putting out much power,
    So you will need a driver of some kind.
    MOSFETS are well suted to doing this kind of simple switching .. Just be sure to add a diode across the coil .

    If it was me I would do this ( see attachment)
    Cat5 has 8 wires you only need 3 this way ..
    What Kind of Load are you switching ??

    Peter

    KG6LSE

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    peterthethinker.com/tesla/Venom/Venom.html
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    LOL

    Post Edited (Peter KG6LSE) : 12/7/2009 12:53:16 AM GMT
    640 x 480 - 69K
  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 00:53
    Hi,

    So basically there are 8 units across the line, each with access to 24v off of which operate a small power supply for some LEDs. The relay switches them on an off rapidly as needed. The signal cable (Cat5) is independent of the power. However, since these units are existing it would be very difficult to add components into the box unless it is very simple. This is due to space and mostly time!

    In terms of the CMOS chip, that is on a separate controller and would be easy to change. What if I just attached another relay to the controller and sent 12v or 24v down the line? Would that work better? I'm just trying to avoid having to modify the power supply boxes.

    Would the MOSFETS still be a good idea?

    Thanks a ton!

    Alex
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2009-12-07 01:05
    They're solid-state relays.· The datasheet (Input Specs)·states that the current at 5V is only 1.8mA.

    Post Edit -- X 8 = 14.4 mA.· You could do that from 1 Stamp pin.· The 500' thing is hinkey, but other than that -- eh.

    Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 12/7/2009 1:10:39 AM GMT
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-07 01:07
    Then your gold just use the cat 5.

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  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 01:08
    Wonderful thanks so much everyone. Like I said I thought I would be fine but I don't have the benefit of knowing all the "caveats" to worry about.

    Just out of curiosity, what would the practical and theoretical length limit be for the cat5?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-07 01:11
    I gave you the equation. Just plug current in for I and compute length

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  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 01:17
    Ahhh I get it now thanks.
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-07 01:39
    max cable length is 1954 feet though I would not every try to work at 100% of max. 1000 though should be safe.

    also this is using only 1 pair. if you use all 4 pairs you can quadruple the length

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  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 01:44
    Hi,

    Thanks a ton, that's really helpful. I can actually use all four pairs, would I tie them all to the CMOS4050, or would I put them each on a different output (with the same signal being sent)?

    As it stands we don't have a 1000' cable run anyhow, in fact I think the max will be 600 or less.

    It's difficult to work within constraints because I know there are probably more "ideal" ways to do this, but thanks for helping me make this work.

    Alex
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-07 02:04
    Either way of combining pairs will work. By the way that max is straight wire and cat 5 pairs are twisted so the pairs are longer then the cable length

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    24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
  • rapscaLLionrapscaLLion Posts: 75
    edited 2009-12-07 02:13
    Another great point thanks! I figure even if the cable is 20% longer due to the twists (which seems to be the maximum on casual glance at the specs) we are still well within range.
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