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schematics

faizzzfaizzz Posts: 7
edited 2009-12-08 01:00 in Propeller 1
hi

i am working on the schematic for my project, and i needed to konw which software is most easy to use in this regard.
Furthermore, is it possible to put components like the prop plug in the schematic?.. i mean if we have to design a component ourselves, which software would be most suitable for it.
One last thing, i am thinking of using MAX158 ADC and MAX699 watchdog for my application, which is an autopilot system, and i can only use DIP packaging. i know that sucks but its a limitation i have to work with.
Anyways, Could anyone be kind enough to tell me whether these chips are an appropriate choice? and if not, could anyone please give some recommendations.

Regards

Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-05 13:50
    I used Easy-PC for about 15 years:

    www.numberone.com

    It's very intuitive and easy to use. I use Pulsonix now, it's from the same company.

    What I use for the Prop Plug is a simple generic four-way connector part that I created a long time ago. I could have created a specific part, but it isn't really necessary in this case. Here is one of my schematics:

    www.leonheller.com/Propeller/Propeller_schematic.pdf

    CONN2 is the Prop Plug connector.

    For a specific Prop Plug part I'd just have to add the pin Logic Names (Tx, Rx, RESn and Vss) to the part in the Pulsonix Part Editor. I could assign those names to nets, if I wished, in the Part Editor.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

    Post Edited (Leon) : 12/5/2009 2:01:53 PM GMT
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-12-05 14:20
    For my experimental boards I added a +3.3 Volts pin, as per the elektor 3 transistor cct, ie there are 5 used. A 10 way IDC header, wired 1+2, 3+4 etc, works with all the bits around here.

    This allows a disrete RS232 board ( three transistors, or MAX3232 ) to be shared. I got fed up of rebuilding interfaces, along with regulators.
    The down side was when I forgot on one board and directly gave the Prop a power supply that was intended for the regulated sort

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    Style and grace : Nil point
  • faizzzfaizzz Posts: 7
    edited 2009-12-05 15:52
    @leon, thanx for telling about the software!, looks great! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-05 16:00
    faizzz said...
    @leon, thanx for telling about the software!, looks great! [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    There are lots of other packages around, of course, at about the same price, or free. Eagle is popular, but it's a pain in the posterior to use.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
  • Sal AmmoniacSal Ammoniac Posts: 213
    edited 2009-12-05 16:11
    I'm in the process of designing my first board and I'm using Eagle. It's a nice package that I've found reasonably easy to use, however it does have its critics.

    The biggest quirk Eagle has is its seemingly backwards command interface. In most Windows and Mac applications, you select an object and then click on a command icon. In Eagle, it's the opposite: you click on a command icon and then click on the object you want to apply it to. Example: say you want to delete a resistor from your schematic--you first select the delete icon and then click on the resistor you want to delete.

    Once you get past that interface quirk, Eagle has a wide user base and several forums to go to if you have issues. One of the best I've seen is the one on the Sparkfun forums.

    Another benefit of Eagle is the large number of footprint libraries available. Sparkfun has one that includes 90% of the components I'm using in my first design. I only had to create a few myself, and the process for doing so is straightforward and well-documented.
  • faizzzfaizzz Posts: 7
    edited 2009-12-05 16:13
    i havent swithched to easy-pc yet. i have done a major part of my schematic on target3001 though. its library seems pretty good.
    how would you compare eagle, easy-pc and target3001?
  • Jay KickliterJay Kickliter Posts: 446
    edited 2009-12-05 17:04
    Despite my frequent frustration with Eagle, I haven't found a replacement. I really like the command line, and the fact it works with OS X. But it really is a PITA as Leon stated. Making new library parts
    is a constat relearning process, since it isn't very intuitive.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-05 17:32
    faizzz said...
    i havent swithched to easy-pc yet. i have done a major part of my schematic on target3001 though. its library seems pretty good.
    how would you compare eagle, easy-pc and target3001?

    It''s best to try them out for yourself and see which one you prefer; they all have their good and bad points and what suits one user won't suit another.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-12-05 17:45
    I use FreePCB, because I can't/won't get around to learning a more powerful sort. It is OK for the single sided, with wire links that I use, but I suspect wouldn't suit the commertial board mfrs, for those lovely through holes. Its libruary stock is minimal and I constantly have to recreate things because I formated them off the HD, again. It can't rotate (even 45 degrees) so I really must try Diptrace which I have here.

    So I would say learn a good one that you can stick with, for a long time.

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    Style and grace : Nil point
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-12-05 18:32
    i like eagle. sure it is $1000 for the full thing but the free version can do a lot still. It is easy to make objects and there are lots of pre written scripts for signal propogation delays and other advanced features. someone even wrote a script to generate a 3d model of your board.

    I learned it in grade 9 and have stuck with it. find one you like because you will never change.

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    24 bit LCD Breakout Board now in. $21.99 has backlight driver and touch sensitive decoder.
  • mynet43mynet43 Posts: 644
    edited 2009-12-06 00:28
    Have to get my two cents worth in here [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    I've used several, including Eagle. I now use DipTrace for everything.

    It's very intuitive and provides a "free" complete package for a limited number of pins. I used that for a long time and have now upgraded to the bigger version.

    Excellent starter, includes schematic, PCB layout, component design and pattern design. All very well integrated.

    Good hunting.

    Jim
  • SeariderSearider Posts: 290
    edited 2009-12-06 04:05
    I looked at several and settled on DipTrace.· I does everything I need and has a full featured (limited number of pins [noparse][[/noparse]250 i think]) free version. It is fairly intuitive and has a good tutorial for both Schematic and PCB Layout

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    Searider
  • Sal AmmoniacSal Ammoniac Posts: 213
    edited 2009-12-06 05:14
    How are the DipTrace component libraries? Are they reasonably complete? How difficult is it to create new schematic symbols and part footprints?

    Since I'm not buying components in large quantities (this is a hobby for me), I tend to get most of my stuff from SparkFun or Parallax. The SparkFun Eagle library has entries for almost every part they sell, including many that are not in the library that comes with Eagle, such as the Xbee, and various sensors that I use. Does DipTrace have similar support, either by the vendor or the user community?

    How is the auto router (I know, I know, some of you think that auto routers do a poor job and routing is best done manually, but I'd rather get on with a project rather than spend hour after hour manually routing boards)?
  • DroneDrone Posts: 433
    edited 2009-12-06 08:30
    Hi Faizzz,

    KiCad kicad.sourceforge.net/ is a complete EDA suite that is free, cross platform and open source. It has:

    Project and library manager.
    Schematic capture.
    Component/footprint creator/editor.
    Gerber viewer.
    Layout editor with autorouter.
    3D board viewer.
    3D component creator/editor.

    I may have left something out. The 3D viewer/editor comes as an add-in from the free, cross-platform, open-source Wings3D application (see: www.wings3d.com/. See the KiCad homepage for links to parts resources over and above the large parts library that comes with KiCad itself. There are lots of 3rd party add-ins and utilities for KiCad too.

    There is a large KiCad user community at tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/kicad-users/. There is no built in SPICE simulator but it will export netlists to various simulators including LTSpice which is available free from www.linear.com. There is a large LTSpice user group here: tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/LTspice/. LTSpice is Windows only and proprietary. But it has always been completely free - there isn't a version you can pay for as far as I know.

    The learning curve can be a little steep with KiCad, but that's the case with any full-capability EDA suite. Choose your EDA suite carefully, it takes a lot of work to learn how to use it effectively, by then you're investment in time and effort will lock you in. Imagine marrying the wrong woman (or man). I think you get the picture. At least KiCad will go with you regardless of platform/OS, it's free, and completely open-source.

    Diptrace would be my next choice, but it costs money if you want to go beyond 500 pins. Diptrace has a built-in SPICE simulator built in, but IMHO it's not as good as LTSpice; especially when you consider the wonderful support from the LTSpice user-group.

    I would steer wide and clear of Eagle. I used Eagle once a long time ago and hated every minute with it; the user interface is horrific in my opinion, just not intuitive in any way. But those that use it often would argue with me, they're "trained" already. You're limited to a tiny little board with Eagle unless you let Cadsoft connect a vacuum cleaner to your wallet.

    With KiCad out there, I just shake my head in amazement on how many people just automatically gravitate to Eagle. Cadsoft the company that produces Eagle was sold recently to Farnell/Newark, a large electronic distributor. I can see why from a business standpoint, perhaps Eagle will start building Farnell/Newark bills-of-material automatically. That would be a nice feature in my opinion provided you can turn it off. I wish KiCad would work up some kind of standard Web interface specification for interconnection with electronic parts distributors.

    As for making a "part" like the prop-plug. With any EDA suite, be prepared to make your own. You typically have to make at least a PCB footprint and for something really non-standard both a schematic part and PCB footprint. Making a 3D part is of-course optional. I have seen some Eagle to KiCad part conversion utilities, but haven't tried any of them.

    Good Luck, David
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-06 12:59
    Where I used to work they bought Eagle against my advice because one of the other engineers had used it a lot. After trying to design a PCB with it I gave up, refused to use it any more, and insisted that I used my own copy of Pulsonix. Eagle needed about twice as many keystrokes and mouse operations as Pulsonix for a given operation, aggravating an RSI problem I had at the time. It also kept crashing on me; I told the distributor about it but they wouldn't help with the problem. After a lot of arguing, management gave in and I was allowed to use Pulsonix. The colleague who knew it well once spent two weeks designing a PCB with it that I could have done in a couple of days with Pulsonix. Another colleague also refused to use it and insisted on using the Aries package that the company had bought him a couple of years previously. The starting price of Pulsonix is only about 2x that of Eagle.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

    Post Edited (Leon) : 12/6/2009 1:08:43 PM GMT
  • tdlivingstdlivings Posts: 437
    edited 2009-12-06 16:21
    Advanced Circuits has free software called PC Board Artist.

    I have used Advanced Circuits for several boards and they produce execlent quality.

    http://www.4pcb.com/index.php?load=content&page_id=46

    I have not used PC Board Artist. I used Electronics Workbench and Ultiboard .

    It looks like a complete product and has a large lib.

    Tom
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-06 17:15
    PCB Artist is Easy-PC. The file formats are different, though.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-12-06 17:34
    Drone:

    LTSpice may be a Windows only program but it has always run flawlessly for me under Wine in Linux. Sometimes I think it's developers have gone out of their way to make it Wine friendly. It's one of my all time favourite programs.

    Good heads up re: KiCad. I suddenly have the urge to layout a board or two.

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • UltraLazerUltraLazer Posts: 30
    edited 2009-12-07 22:39
    I would suggest Eagle (if you like windows) as a stepping stone to Altium (if you like windows). Although Eagle's UI seems to belong to the win95 cannon, it provides a great introduction to industry standard features and concepts by name. The proprietary easy to use PCD software will likely let you design some nice boards but severely limits your choices of manufacturers to only one. Many PCB manufactures will even allow you to submit Eagle *.brd files and will generate the gerber files for you.

    Altium supports FPGA's... costs what seems like 1 million $, has every feature known to man, and makes nerds of all standing drool. I once noticed a cracked copy seeded on a popular torrent site, however I would not suggest breaking the law... ... ........

    For the pcb production I would recommend www.pcbcart.com, the prices are reasonable even for processes other manufacturers charge throughly for, like coloured soldermask and gold plating. They also generated annotated PDF images of my project and suggested some basic error correction, a few different drill sizes to cut tooling costs. I had 50 dual 3" x 4" layer boards w/ white soldermask, red silk screen and gold plating, made @ $2.75 each. + about 65$ set up, If I remember correctly. 2 weeks from submission to delivery, with the long (cheapest) lead time. They also do complex milling for free, so non-rectilinear boards are no problem.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-12-07 22:48
    I tried Altium recently and didn't like it at all. Pulsonix includes the more useful features in Altium and is much easier to use. Altium slashed their prices a couple of months ago, presumably because they haven't made a profit in years. Altium has even copied some features from Pulsonix, like track following, which was a suggestion of mine.

    Gold plating is standard with a lot of suppliers now, as it helps a lot with RoHS. A cheaper alternative is silver, PCB Train use that and it seems to work very well. I sometimes use PCB Train's 24 hour service for prototypes - only £30 a board and I have them in my hands in three days.

    Leon

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM

    Post Edited (Leon) : 12/7/2009 10:56:13 PM GMT
  • mikedivmikediv Posts: 825
    edited 2009-12-07 23:14
    I have a Eagle and Express but lately I have been using Circuit Maker its very good for schematics the library function is just awesome . I do not know if you can do actual circuit boards from your schematic I will have to check but its worth looking into for novice guys needing to design schematics. I also have Proteus 7 but when you draw a schematic its not compatible with anything else so unless you are doing simulation its a waste. I have tried to use a program called Tina but it will not run on Vista
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2009-12-07 23:28
    Hi mikediv


    I RUN Proteus 7 to make SCH-PCB layout.
    Very nice program ... Run even some simulations to.
    One problem ...... Cant find Z80/8080 simulations module to it.

    And it not have Propeller to ):

    But only CPU´s I not use much in my designs.

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    Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
    For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
    Don't guess - ask instead.
    If you don't ask you won't know.
    If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.


    Sapieha
  • mikedivmikediv Posts: 825
    edited 2009-12-07 23:33
    Sapieha I have a whole bunch of files I got from friends I think I have the z80/8080 They are very big libraries if you would like copies email mikediv@comcast.net I do not know how to attach files here .. also some of the libraries have the parts in German
    I have deciphered a bunch but the older 74LS libs are a big help ,, Someone told me you could use this program to make circuit boards right from your schematic but I do not know how
  • SapiehaSapieha Posts: 2,964
    edited 2009-12-07 23:41
    Hi mikediv


    I are not at home now ... Have one consulting work some 400KM from.

    But IF You can sebd them to .... christofferj2@gmail.com tha have ben very nice.

    mikediv .... I can help You start with making PCB Layouts from this program .... If You have Gmail.chat else Live masenger

    REGARDS
    Christoffer J
  • SeariderSearider Posts: 290
    edited 2009-12-08 01:00
    Sal Ammoniac said...
    How are the DipTrace component libraries? Are they reasonably complete? How difficult is it to create new schematic symbols and part footprints?

    Since I'm not buying components in large quantities (this is a hobby for me), I tend to get most of my stuff from SparkFun or Parallax. The SparkFun Eagle library has entries for almost every part they sell, including many that are not in the library that comes with Eagle, such as the Xbee, and various sensors that I use. Does DipTrace have similar support, either by the vendor or the user community?

    How is the auto router (I know, I know, some of you think that auto routers do a poor job and routing is best done manually, but I'd rather get on with a project rather than spend hour after hour manually routing boards)?
    Sal,

    sorry I took so long to get back to you. I forgot to mark this post and did not see it had traffic.·
    1. I have not used Eagle or others so I can't compare the libraries. I can find all common components
    2. I find creating new components is pretty straitforward. I had to use the tutorial a couple of times, then I got it.
    3. suposedly you can import eagle librarys but I have not tried this.
    4. I have created all my own Parallax and Sparkfun components that I use rather than figure out how to import.
    5. I have never used the autoroute. for some strange reason, I like the process of solving a routing puzzle. Using an autorouter for me would be like reading the solution to a brand new puzzle you bought before trying to solve it yourself and I like to solve puzzles.


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    Searider
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