self organizing information
rjo_
Posts: 1,825
Self organizing information doesn't exist. Someone has to do it[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Hi guys,
I can still remember when I was trying to find a way to make electronics into a hobby. For years, one thing or another stood in my way. I read Forest Mims... but could never get excited about the little projects in his books. I read Circuit Cellar and N&V, but there was always something missing. It was like looking at hieroglyphics. I could look. But for one reason or another, I could never actually touch electronics. All of that changed when I found the Propeller, the Rosetta Stone of electronics. Now when I read N&V, my most common thought is..."Gee golly fella, you could do that a lot easier with a Propeller."
One of the most impressive aspects of the Parallax experience is the wealth of organized information. Taken as a whole, the knowledge base is nothing short of astounding. I have been around long enough to see Propeller-specific information turn from a trickle into a flood. Today, the term "information explosion" seems appropriate.
I always enjoy starting a new project, because I know that if I can imagine it... I can probably do it with a Propeller (or two or three).
Most of the time, all of the information I need already exists here in the Forum, in Parallax's educational materials, or in the Store. "Doing a project" often means collecting information, finding and organizing the required objects and writing one or two objects to tie it all together.
The biggest challenge is finding the information I need.... among everything that is available. Parallax shouldn't try to improve things too much, because in the process of wondering around I frequently bump into info that I wasn't looking for... some of which is more important than the stuff I was looking for. As a hobbyist, the destination is the journey. But in a pinch... when I am really in a hurry... the info explosion can be a problem.
In the Spin Tool
The Archive function is very convenient. I don't have to leave the Spin tool and I don't have to worry that my zip tool is incompatible with your zip tool. I don't have to create a README file... everything is done for me with one key press.
BUT
1. It would be helpful if we could include an "info" file in our project folder... which file would be recognized by the Archive function and included in the final archive. The info file could include complete diagrams, pictures and commentary all in a standardized format... such as rtf or pdf.
That way, all changes to OBEX objects could be listed in one place and special explanations that would be helpful to the end user could be included in a standardized manner in a single file.
2. The README file should also report each Object's memory usage. This would slow the archiving process, but the delay would be worth the wait. Much of the time, the user intends to re-use an OBEX object in a project that includes other objects. Knowing where memory is being consumed would be helpful.
In the OBEX
The OBEX is fabulous and getting better every day. Most of the time, I can set up and test an object object in a few minutes. THAT is a remarkable fact, which only a few years ago, I would have scarcely believed possible. If there is any question about the object oriented philosophy that Chip followed in creating SPIN, all you have to do is look at the OBEX and think of how it would look if the object structure was different. I think there would be far fewer objects, being use far less often.
3. When an object is submitted to the OBEX, it would be helpful if a Forum thread was automatically started to included all user questions and comments.
There is a place for comments in the OBEX section... but it is rarely used and the OBEX is really not a place for discussions. Possibly a link to an associated Object Thread could be automatically generated each time an object was submitted to the OBEX. This would help organize the Forum as well.
In the Forum
4. It would also me useful if there was a standard "links" section in each forum thread... so that prior germane discussions could be manually linked in a standard way. A button labelled "add link" would save responders time and keep everything in a consistent form. As it is, responders often list links somewhere in a thread, but you never know where the references are going to be.
5. Parallax needs a Librarian/Historian... a really fun job.
You probably have your own list...and you might like some of mine.
If you were offering priority advice to Parallax... what changes do you think would be most important?
Rich
Hi guys,
I can still remember when I was trying to find a way to make electronics into a hobby. For years, one thing or another stood in my way. I read Forest Mims... but could never get excited about the little projects in his books. I read Circuit Cellar and N&V, but there was always something missing. It was like looking at hieroglyphics. I could look. But for one reason or another, I could never actually touch electronics. All of that changed when I found the Propeller, the Rosetta Stone of electronics. Now when I read N&V, my most common thought is..."Gee golly fella, you could do that a lot easier with a Propeller."
One of the most impressive aspects of the Parallax experience is the wealth of organized information. Taken as a whole, the knowledge base is nothing short of astounding. I have been around long enough to see Propeller-specific information turn from a trickle into a flood. Today, the term "information explosion" seems appropriate.
I always enjoy starting a new project, because I know that if I can imagine it... I can probably do it with a Propeller (or two or three).
Most of the time, all of the information I need already exists here in the Forum, in Parallax's educational materials, or in the Store. "Doing a project" often means collecting information, finding and organizing the required objects and writing one or two objects to tie it all together.
The biggest challenge is finding the information I need.... among everything that is available. Parallax shouldn't try to improve things too much, because in the process of wondering around I frequently bump into info that I wasn't looking for... some of which is more important than the stuff I was looking for. As a hobbyist, the destination is the journey. But in a pinch... when I am really in a hurry... the info explosion can be a problem.
In the Spin Tool
The Archive function is very convenient. I don't have to leave the Spin tool and I don't have to worry that my zip tool is incompatible with your zip tool. I don't have to create a README file... everything is done for me with one key press.
BUT
1. It would be helpful if we could include an "info" file in our project folder... which file would be recognized by the Archive function and included in the final archive. The info file could include complete diagrams, pictures and commentary all in a standardized format... such as rtf or pdf.
That way, all changes to OBEX objects could be listed in one place and special explanations that would be helpful to the end user could be included in a standardized manner in a single file.
2. The README file should also report each Object's memory usage. This would slow the archiving process, but the delay would be worth the wait. Much of the time, the user intends to re-use an OBEX object in a project that includes other objects. Knowing where memory is being consumed would be helpful.
In the OBEX
The OBEX is fabulous and getting better every day. Most of the time, I can set up and test an object object in a few minutes. THAT is a remarkable fact, which only a few years ago, I would have scarcely believed possible. If there is any question about the object oriented philosophy that Chip followed in creating SPIN, all you have to do is look at the OBEX and think of how it would look if the object structure was different. I think there would be far fewer objects, being use far less often.
3. When an object is submitted to the OBEX, it would be helpful if a Forum thread was automatically started to included all user questions and comments.
There is a place for comments in the OBEX section... but it is rarely used and the OBEX is really not a place for discussions. Possibly a link to an associated Object Thread could be automatically generated each time an object was submitted to the OBEX. This would help organize the Forum as well.
In the Forum
4. It would also me useful if there was a standard "links" section in each forum thread... so that prior germane discussions could be manually linked in a standard way. A button labelled "add link" would save responders time and keep everything in a consistent form. As it is, responders often list links somewhere in a thread, but you never know where the references are going to be.
5. Parallax needs a Librarian/Historian... a really fun job.
You probably have your own list...and you might like some of mine.
If you were offering priority advice to Parallax... what changes do you think would be most important?
Rich
Comments
2. Can't you just download the objects and compile them yourself to get the memory usage statistics?
3. I think this would be difficult to do on a technical level. The forum software, as mentioned elsewhere, is very brittle and is being actively replaced. Connecting it to the (presumably) more modern obex software might be a problem. On the other had, a cultural change where the designer makes a thread might be nice. I have done that for the (one) object that I submitted, and provided the link in the object description. Many others do it too.
4. Again, the forum software is brittle.
5. I agree for technical documents and backwards documentation, but in general I personally disagree. I think we should let the past fade as it may, and not try to force people of the present to remember the past. I wouldn't want to burden future generations with my memory.
1. You are correct. Object Code should be self documenting. But frequently a Project change list is useful.
2. Yes... but it takes time. Usually I just proceed until something breaks[noparse]:)[/noparse]
4. The forum software is brittle. But the OBEX has been dynamically modified and appears to work just fine.
5. The value of technical information has a half life... but the half life of pertinent information for the Prop has to be at least 5 years.
You can link a user to the past... but you can't make them go there[noparse]:)[/noparse]
If I was Parallax, I wouldn't change too much too soon... things are working just fine[noparse]:)[/noparse] But... Parallax also feasts upon change and they do care what you think.
Rich
I have an idea how you can do that with the existing propellertool
just create a "dummy-object" and meaybe the dummy-object contains one simple method
and as a comment all the documentation you want to write
if the object is defined and the method called once it will be included in the zip-archive
best regards
Stefan