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Where are the SX28's at? — Parallax Forums

Where are the SX28's at?

eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
edited 2009-10-27 18:38 in General Discussion
I just noticed that the SX28 DP's are out of stock and there is no estimated date when they will be back in stock. Anyone know when or if they will be back? I sell a product that uses these and I only have 5 left [noparse]:([/noparse]

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-25 21:52
    Have you seen this thread? http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=827942
  • James LongJames Long Posts: 1,181
    edited 2009-10-25 21:52
    I'm sure the SX's will be back in stock...but you should know (if you didn't already) the SX is a EOL product (End Of Life).

    They are going to stop producing the SX. You may want to start a redesign now.....to handle when the SX is gone.

    Parallax has stated they are going to buy enough for a couple of years ( I can't remember how long they guesstimated), but if it were me, I wouldn't take any chances.

    That way when the SX's are gone, you just switch over to your new design......

    James L

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    James L
    Partner/Designer
    Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services

    Are you addicted to technology or Micro-controllers..... then checkout the forums at Savage Circuits. Learn to build your own Gizmos!
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-25 22:47
    Well dang, that sucks. I don't know of any chip that I can replace my current one with [noparse]:([/noparse]
  • James LongJames Long Posts: 1,181
    edited 2009-10-25 22:55
    eagletalontim said...
    Well dang, that sucks. I don't know of any chip that I can replace my current one with [noparse]:([/noparse]

    I can't say if you could have a direct replacement, but there are many chips you could probably redesign with. I guess it just depends on what it does, and how much programming it would take for a new chip to do the same thing.

    James L

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    James L
    Partner/Designer
    Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services

    Are you addicted to technology or Micro-controllers..... then checkout the forums at Savage Circuits. Learn to build your own Gizmos!
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-26 01:18
    Does anyone have any suggestions that I could use for a new chip to use? It has to be through hole style chip since I do not have the capabilities to solder surface mount chips. The programming is very small and simple, basically 2 pins are on/off depending on a specific sequence. Two buttons change the sequence, and an 7 segment LED displays numbers 1 though 9. So all in all, 11 pins are used on the chip.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-26 01:31
    There are lots and lots of 16 to 20 pin PICs and AVRs out there that would work. You'd have to buy a new programmer and there are some free to inexpensive programming tools. I used to use a PIC12F683 for an 8-pin device and a PIC16F690 for a 20-pin device. Both are supported by the PicKit2 programmer and you can use PICbasic (not free, but cheap) to program it (or assembly).
  • James LongJames Long Posts: 1,181
    edited 2009-10-26 01:41
    eagletalontim said...
    Does anyone have any suggestions that I could use for a new chip to use? It has to be through hole style chip since I do not have the capabilities to solder surface mount chips. The programming is very small and simple, basically 2 pins are on/off depending on a specific sequence. Two buttons change the sequence, and an 7 segment LED displays numbers 1 though 9. So all in all, 11 pins are used on the chip.

    So you need a simple chip which comes in a dip style. You need 16 I/O, and simple to program. What about calculation speed?

    I don't know of any, but if you get the specifications out there...someone may be able to recommend a chip.

    James L

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    James L
    Partner/Designer
    Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services

    Are you addicted to technology or Micro-controllers..... then checkout the forums at Savage Circuits. Learn to build your own Gizmos!
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-26 02:00
    I did some research on the PIC chips that you are talking about, but cannot find any good sources for how to program them or any support on them. I need something similar to parallax's setup if at all possible with good support. Since I don't have alot of experience in programming IC chips, I would really need alot of help tongue.gif I don't mind spending extra money to get something better to match my needs since my business stands on these chips.


    EDIT : The calculation speed does not have to be that fast at all. I run the SX28 without a frequency chip when installed on my PCB. Some other items I am experimenting on use 50mhz.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-26 02:36
    The Spin Stamp might work for you at $40 each in 20 quantities. It uses the Propeller which will be around for a long time. It's a 24-pin through hole 0.6" wide module, a little wider than the SX, but it includes a regulator like the Stamps that provides +5V for external use which is further regulated to 3.3V. Because it's a Propeller, the I/O pins are 3.3V, so you may need to change the button circuitry. The rest (LED and outputs) should work fine.
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-26 02:36
    just out of curiosity, would the Propeller chips possibly work in my application? If I have to learn how to solder surface mount chips, I will do that in a heartbeat tongue.gif I did not see that they are at an EOL. My product is used inside vehicles and the other projects will also be used in vehicles as well.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-26 02:42
    It would certainly be cheaper to use a surface mount Propeller. You wouldn't need a crystal because you don't need precise frequency control, but you'd need a 24LC256 EEPROM since the Propeller doesn't have built-in flash memory.
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-26 02:47
    What would the EEprom be for? Is the propeller not able to save temporary variables while it is running like the SX?
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2009-10-26 02:54
    Back to the poster's question. The SX28AC/DP-G wafers are being finished in Taiwan next week and we take delivery of them first week of November. We should have a quarter-million of them at Parallax around December 1st.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-26 02:59
    The Propeller has plenty of memory for variables while it's running. It shares 32K between the running program and its variables, but this is SRAM. Its contents goes away when the power goes off. The Propeller copies the program from the EEPROM to the SRAM when it's reset like on power up. When you download a new program using the development environment (the Propeller Tool), it gets copied to the EEPROM by the Propeller.

    250,000 SX chips is a lot. It will take some time to exhaust them (on the order of years). Don't rush to redesign your product, but do start learning a new system and start thinking about how you would improve what you have when you do redesign it.

    Post Edited (Mike Green) : 10/26/2009 3:05:16 AM GMT
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-26 03:03
    hmmm. interesting. so the Propeller does not hold the program on power off. I would have to have an EEprom for this to work in my application. It is good to know that the chips will be in December! It is a little far out and sales are waiting [noparse]:([/noparse] Hopefully something will work out soon. I am kind of interested in getting into the propeller chip though. looks more complicated though, especially needing an eeprom.
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-26 03:42
    The minimum parts for a Propeller include the Propeller, a 24LC256 EEPROM or equivalent, one 10K resistor (for the EEPROM's SDA signal line), and a source of regulated +3.3V at a few milliAmps (about 3mA for each cog you're using) plus whatever the external circuitry needs.

    Post Edited (Mike Green) : 10/26/2009 3:48:45 AM GMT
  • dkemppaidkemppai Posts: 315
    edited 2009-10-26 19:01
    Ken Gracey (Parallax) said...
    Back to the poster's question. The SX28AC/DP-G wafers are being finished in Taiwan next week and we take delivery of them first week of November. We should have a quarter-million of them at Parallax around December 1st.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.
    How many in the queue after that?

    -Dan

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    "A saint-like quantity of patience is a help, if this is unavailable, a salty vocabulary works nearly as well." - A. S. Weaver
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2009-10-26 19:37
    If your need is immediate and short-term, and if you don't mind spending extra for it, you could reprogram an OEM BASIC Stamp 2e Interpreter Chip, which is a pre-programmed SX28.

    -Phil
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2009-10-26 20:34
    @Dan, that'll be the end of supply. All total, there are about 750K SX chips in the pipeline. Done our best around here to make sure that all customers were contacted so we could meet their needs. We even bought over their estimated needs as much as we could afford to purchase without taking on risk.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2009-10-26 21:04
    So are there any SX48 chips in the pipeline too or just the SX28 chips? I could use some more SX48 chips and should probably make sure I have enough to finish of the little SX48 OEM module kits and at least have enough to match the remaining PCB's.

    Robert
  • CounterRotatingPropsCounterRotatingProps Posts: 1,132
    edited 2009-10-26 22:01
    Ditto Robert's question on the '48s - H

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  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-27 00:00
    ok, just out of curiosity..... If I did get the Propeller 44pin QFP chip, what eeprom would I need to match the SX28's programmable memory? Most of my programs will fit on just one SX28, but a few need 2 which transfer data back and forth. Hopefully I can do all the same with the Propeller. I don't sell a whole bunch of these items but I sell enough to keep 10 to 15 items in stock at all times. All I would need to do is be able to possibly fill the area where the SX used to be and I may even be able to improve my design by going with SM components if they can handle the 1 amp current from a 7805 regulator.
  • James LongJames Long Posts: 1,181
    edited 2009-10-27 00:19
    eagletalontim said...
    ok, just out of curiosity..... If I did get the Propeller 44pin QFP chip, what eeprom would I need to match the SX28's programmable memory? Most of my programs will fit on just one SX28, but a few need 2 which transfer data back and forth. Hopefully I can do all the same with the Propeller. I don't sell a whole bunch of these items but I sell enough to keep 10 to 15 items in stock at all times. All I would need to do is be able to possibly fill the area where the SX used to be and I may even be able to improve my design by going with SM components if they can handle the 1 amp current from a 7805 regulator.

    I'm not sure of the memory requirements, for i haven't compared the two. Just for information, the Propeller runs on 3.3 volts not 5 volts.

    I thought that may be important to your considerations.

    James L

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    James L
    Partner/Designer
    Lil Brother SMT Assembly Services

    Are you addicted to technology or Micro-controllers..... then checkout the forums at Savage Circuits. Learn to build your own Gizmos!
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,212
    edited 2009-10-27 16:33
    eagletalontim said...
    ok, just out of curiosity..... If I did get the Propeller 44pin QFP chip, what eeprom would I need to match the SX28's programmable memory? Most of my programs will fit on just one SX28, but a few need 2 which transfer data back and forth. Hopefully I can do all the same with the Propeller. I don't sell a whole bunch of these items but I sell enough to keep 10 to 15 items in stock at all times. All I would need to do is be able to possibly fill the area where the SX used to be and I may even be able to improve my design by going with SM components if they can handle the 1 amp current from a 7805 regulator.

    Technically, you'll have more space -- you have eight cogs each with 2K (bytes). Now, cog memory is broken into longs (four bytes) so you only have 512 per cog but still, you have a total of 4K longs inside the Propeller.

    Don't worry about the reduction in instructions within a cog -- PASM is far more powerful than SX assembly. Give the Propeller a try; you'll find that integrating code written by others is simpler. And I'm very confident you'll be able to port your dual SX28 projects to one Propeller, especially if the bulk of your code in Spin is not limited by the cog RAM size.
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-27 17:03
    That will take some time to learn about the cogs. I tried to learn about them by reading the Propeller manual but still got lost tongue.gif I did see a huge difference in the coding between the SX and the Propeller so hopefully I can pick up on the new language soon. I have already ordered a Propeller Protoboard and the Prop Plug. Now I just have to wait....
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2009-10-27 17:23
    @Robert, yes, same for SX48s. Is 500K units enough? I don't know how quickly they will sell out, however.

    Ken Gracey
    Parallax Inc.
  • JonnyMacJonnyMac Posts: 9,212
    edited 2009-10-27 18:33
    eagletalontim said...
    That will take some time to learn about the cogs. I tried to learn about them by reading the Propeller manual but still got lost tongue.gif I did see a huge difference in the coding between the SX and the Propeller so hopefully I can pick up on the new language soon. I have already ordered a Propeller Protoboard and the Prop Plug. Now I just have to wait....

    Don't get wrapped around the axle (pun intended, as you do automotive projects) with the term "cog" -- it's a fancy term for processor. In your dual-SX system you have to establish a communication link with wires and a protocol. It's much easier going cog-to-cog: you simply define a section of hub RAM (main, 32K) that both cogs know about and can exchange information. You could, for example, have a cog devoted to monitoring a sensor; it can write the sensor value to the hub were that value can be picked up by another cog that is maintaining a display. Since the sensor reading and display updates take place in different processors (cogs) you don't have to worry about them clashing with each other, and you can change one without worrying about the other. This makes writing code for the Propeller more modular, and code is generally easier to maintain and update.

    Yes, it takes a little time getting used to, but once you do you'll find that you can do advanced things more easily in the Propeller than in the SX (my opinion, not looking to start a war here). I use the SX and Propeller every day and on a big SX-based animatronics control project I delivered a couple of weeks ago kept thinking, "Man, I wish this controller had Propeller on it."
  • eagletalontimeagletalontim Posts: 1,399
    edited 2009-10-27 18:38
    wow, that sounds interesting! It looks like it will be easier to accomplish my new design with the propeller since multitasking will be easier [noparse]:)[/noparse] I have started a thread in the propeller forums and will probably be posting alot more in there after I do some research and experimenting with my protoboard.
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