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Possible Propeller shield board (general purpose) — Parallax Forums

Possible Propeller shield board (general purpose)

yarisboyyarisboy Posts: 245
edited 2009-10-20 23:18 in Propeller 1
I just finished a first draft of a general purpose shield board for the board Jon Williams published in Nuts & Volts last spring. Comments and suggestions welcome. (file attached). Nick at Gadgetgangster.com has a copy of the file so if there was any purchase interest he'd be the guy to contact.

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MOORE'S LAW: The capabilities of electronics shall double every 18 months.
cloyd's corollary: Hardware is easy, software is hard.

Post Edited (yarisboy) : 10/18/2009 2:32:44 AM GMT
pcb
pcb
Propshieldproto.pcb
42K

Comments

  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2009-10-18 02:48
    What format is this file in? Is your board different from the Platform Prototyper Shield already offered at Gadget Gangster gadgetgangster.com/find-a-project/56?projectnum=176 ?
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited 2009-10-18 02:57
    I wonder if "Shield" is a registered trademark for another project and when learning about microcontrollers, I had to look the term up because I had no idea what a shield was.· Using terminology that doesn't explain itself is a barrier for learning because we should keep it simple.
  • yarisboyyarisboy Posts: 245
    edited 2009-10-18 03:05
    The file is an ExpressPCB file. I used the free download from NutsVolts magazine and edited it to my purposes. The guts are a shameless copy of the BS2 super carrier board.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    MOORE'S LAW: The capabilities of electronics shall double every 18 months.
    cloyd's corollary: Hardware is easy, software is hard.
  • yarisboyyarisboy Posts: 245
    edited 2009-10-18 03:10
    Forest,
    My rendition is similar except headers are incorporated to allow ribbon cables to be connected to the real world. Also I included a more comprehensive set of power supply options.

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    MOORE'S LAW: The capabilities of electronics shall double every 18 months.
    cloyd's corollary: Hardware is easy, software is hard.
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2009-10-18 13:32
    Chuckz said...
    I wonder if "Shield" is a registered trademark for another project and when learning about microcontrollers, I had to look the term up because I had no idea what a shield was. Using terminology that doesn't explain itself is a barrier for learning because we should keep it simple.

    That reflects my own sentiments exactly. I haven't had a rant in a fair time, so here goes ...

    It seems to me that the choice of new terminology was deliberate; an attempt to leverage micro-controller systems and programming from engineering to the arts and 'social movement' arenas. The new-speak creates something that seems new and a buzz about that something which non-engineers can buy into, embrace and hype about.

    That the design is Open Source ( IMO no more so than any reference design in a manufacturer's datasheet ) and is being promoted as 'something better' than what exists is also giving momentum to what's being presented.

    More than promoting engineering per se it seems to be about building a 'movement' for the 'Twitter / FaceBook / MySpace Generation' sold on the 'democratisation of electronics and programming'; the impenetrable ivory towers of embedded engineering have been razed, the clique of lab-coated engineers are consigned to the waste bin of history. The Old School is dead, long live the New School. The technology of the clique has been 'liberated' !

    I'm all for bringing embedded systems and programming to the masses, inviting non-engineers to embrace the technology as a tool, but this new terminology ( "Shields", "Wiring", "Process" etc ) was entirely gibberish to me upon first hearing it and ultimately creates a divide between traditional engineers who have been using what has been 'newly discovered' for years, particularly in limiting new-comers who don't understand the standardised engineering lingo and don't recognise that what they have is 'old hat' and has been done before.

    We now consequently have a fork of two groups, both doing the same things, with an artificial created divide which is keeping the two very much apart. I don't see that as a good thing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-10-18 13:59
    Shield is Arduino terminology, "scudo" is probably something relevant in Italian. It's easier to say than "Arduino expansion board".

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/18/2009 2:09:21 PM GMT
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2009-10-18 14:36
    Yeah, I don't know about the other terms hippy is complaining about but "shield" is more of a lost brand. It's easy to say and meaningful in that this particular type of expansion board hides the board it's expanding. In the same way that other brands have become synonymous with the thing they are (such as "Black and Decker" for "power drill") shield has come to conveniently specify a particular type of expansion board that's the same size as the board it's expanding, that uses pin headers both to convey signals and to hold the expansion in place, and is generally stackable by using wire-wrap sockets to provide the pins. You generally learn what "shield" means about thirty seconds after hearing the word "Arduino" for the first time.
  • waltcwaltc Posts: 158
    edited 2009-10-18 15:24
    Hippy

    The folks using Arduino hardware, Process and Wiring software packages aren't hard core geeks or EE's but hobbyists and artists. Ok maybe they aren't doing embedded systems according to your standards of EE/CS purity but they are learning electronics and embedded programing.

    And I don't see anything wrong with that in a society that generally is apathetic about science and technology.
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2009-10-18 23:53
    @ waltc : No nothing wrong with that, but by choosing to wrap it all in their own cultural references they end up only able to understand their own culture.

    Give all the bits of your car fluffy, cute names then walk into a garage for help and refer to those parts in only those terms and you've got a major communications problem looming. The mechanics can't understand what you're talking about because it's some made up name not what is 'industry standard', they'll probably treat you as an idiot. You go away convinced the mechanics 'know nothing'. To solve any car problem you then end up having to re-invent the wheel snarzsnuggle.

    I don't see how that helps anyone.
  • Mike HuseltonMike Huselton Posts: 746
    edited 2009-10-19 11:02
    Hippy,

    You should publish an Arduino to EE reference card.

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    JMH
  • abrahamlinkonabrahamlinkon Posts: 1
    edited 2009-10-19 16:30
    More than promoting engineering per se it seems to be about building a 'movement' for the 'Twitter / FaceBook / MySpace Generation' sold on the 'democratisation of electronics and programming'; the impenetrable ivory towers of embedded engineering have been razed, the clique of lab-coated engineers are consigned to the waste bin of history. The Old School is dead, long live the New School. The technology of the clique has been 'liberated' !

    I'm all for bringing embedded systems and programming to the masses, inviting non-engineers to embrace the technology as a tool, but this new terminology ( "Shields", "Wiring", "Process" etc ) was entirely gibberish to me upon first hearing it and ultimately creates a divide between traditional engineers who have been using what has been 'newly discovered' for years, particularly in limiting new-comers who don't understand the standardised engineering lingo and don't recognise that what they have is 'old hat' and has been done before.

    Awesome Auger
  • CounterRotatingPropsCounterRotatingProps Posts: 1,132
    edited 2009-10-19 16:48
    The thing with jargon is it both helps and hinders.

    For example - I just finished working on an airport-related project that uses "ILS". That jargon term is so everyday in airport technology that I had to think for a minute to remember that it means "Instrument Landing System" (the thing that tells pilots if they're too high or low, too far left or right, and how far away, etc.).

    But if I said to the Average Joe: "our plane will have to land somewhere else because the ILS system is down" Joes eyes might glaze over.

    On the other hand, if I go get my car worked on and tell the mechanic that the snarzsnuggle (tm) is broken and he replies,
    "NO, the problem is the left-handed oscillating B-field generator"
    then, well Houston We Have a Problem.

    Jargon, like technology, a two-handed sword.

    And say, yarisboy, why NOT call it The Propeller Snarznuggle?· tongue.gif

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  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-10-19 17:27
    @hippy

    Let us remember that the computer industry was controlled by the same type of
    high priesthood lab coats a few years ago as well. It took some new terminology
    and new ideas to get computing to the masses. Much of this has been
    beneficial to that industry. Granted, there have been a few negatives, but
    the only folks really bothered by the whole thing were the lab coat wearing
    engineers. [noparse];)[/noparse]

    OBC

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  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-19 17:39
    There's a course at the University of Minnesota's School of Art on Interactive Media. It involves the use of an Arduino to make interactive art with pushbuttons and other sensors and LEDs and servo motors as effectors. The participants are learning to use the Arduino and its tools for programming and are learning Ohm's Law and other very basic electronics principles as needed to do the actual work. I think it's great. It illustrates the increasing role of the microcontroller as an appliance. They're not learning how to be professional programmers nor learning electronics in general. They're more concerned about the appearance of the whole project and how it interacts with those that experience it and the Arduino and the stuff around it are simply a means to an end.
  • mparkmpark Posts: 1,305
    edited 2009-10-19 17:51
    The first time I encountered terms like Arduino and shield, I was baffled. I immediately retreated to my familiar world of Propellers, cogs, and hubs.

    /liked hippy's rant
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-10-19 17:56
    Arduinos are very popular with design students at the Royal College of Art, London. I saw several projects based on Arduinos when I paid them a visit a couple of years ago. Most of the students did their first degree at nearby Imperial College, and Arduinos seem to be used there, as well.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/19/2009 6:04:17 PM GMT
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-10-19 18:27
    I think Hanno's 12Blocks is a great step in the direction of the Propeller as an Arduino substitute / upgrade. What would help would be a Prop board that's compatible in terms of connections / connectors and form-factor. It would have to include some 5V tolerant bidirectional buffers for the 14 digital lines and probably an external 8-channel ADC for the 6 analog inputs. It would have to be powerable from the USB port or from some other external source.
  • Nick McClickNick McClick Posts: 1,003
    edited 2009-10-20 04:27
    One thing I've thought about is an Arduino Shield adapter for the Propeller Platform modules, but I'm not sure if people who have a collection of arduino shields are interested in moving over to the Propeller...

    Anything that expands the hobby and gets more people excited about electronics is a good thing.

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    Gadget Gangster - Share your Electronic Projects
  • WBA ConsultingWBA Consulting Posts: 2,935
    edited 2009-10-20 05:58
    I don't know about the Arduino, but I heard Atmel AVR microcontrollers are fun to use...... rolleyes.gif

    I think that what would be useful is being able to make use of some of the arduino shields as readymade solutions for particular needs. In the same way that I would like to be able to use more of Sparkfun's boards for certain things. In other words, as opposed to having to make a propeller specific --insert desired module here--, it would be nice to utilize an arduino or other version that already exists. I agree with Nick, you may not see too many people hop the arduino fence to check the grass on the propeller side, but it would be nice to use some arduino items on a propeller board.

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  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2009-10-20 07:10
    Heh...

    If they enter the hobby / field at a casual level, the lexical differences won't ever be significant. Should any of them see fit to progress, the matter will be resolved easily enough.

    Potatorating: +2 newbie to hard core conversion potential!

    Translation: Net gain, from where I stand. Having new people join in the fun is a wonderful problem to have at all times.

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  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-10-20 07:43
    The Arduino did have the effect of pushing some "c" into my radar.

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  • Cats92Cats92 Posts: 149
    edited 2009-10-20 09:07
    I quite agree with Mike.
    Hannos 12blocks + an Arduino like shield for the Propeller Platform would make a nice tool for teaching some electronic to young kids. I meet some 10 -12 old kids (in Paris area , France) each Wednesday for basic Robotic Labs (named " la Main a la p
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-10-20 11:35
    The demo for 12 Blocks looks a lot like Flowcode, anything that helps raise the interest is a good thing.I always found that if there wasn't a reasonable starting point available then statring out on a new system/program would just halt at the first "confusing bit". The publication of the DemoBoard ccts and the OBEX for examples, as with the Arduino clan with their samples, is the extra help that stops the P8X32A just being another catalog entry. The Arduino lot do seem to be much more "excitable", perhaps it is the artist vs engineer way.

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  • HannoHanno Posts: 1,130
    edited 2009-10-20 18:58
    Howdy!
    Just found this thread- good discussion! I gave a demo of 12Blocks to my local robotic club kiwibots.org and got some good feedback- and an arduino. I've noticed that many artists use the arduino- and previously worked with one for my installation of the dancebot when it was balancing a champagne glass for a month- and yes, they do think differently!
    I'm hoping 12Blocks is a big step in getting artists to prefer the Propeller. When I first wrote 12Blocks it had a "spin code view" that continuously updated as users manipulated blocks in the worksheet- mainly for my own debugging pleasure. I've since de-emphasized spin, leaving a "view code" button that opens the spin code in the Propeller Tool- and a button that let's you map a block to a spin function. From my club's feedback and this discussion, it sounds like I should re-emphasize spin. Make it easier for people to use existing spin code, and transition from 12Blocks to spin. A simple step is a "spin block"- that allows you to in-line spin code. Another is to re-enable the "code view"- which continually updates a simplified spin program as you're building blocks. Simplified because I use some tricks to do event handling, message passing.
    Hanno

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    Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
    Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here),
    12Blocks, the block-based programming environment
    and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2009-10-20 23:18
    About changing terminology: When I took Comp Sci 1060 in 1981 I was told sternly by the lecturer (who had a math, not CS degree I note), that the word BYTE referred to ANY arbitrary subdivision of a computer word -- this is how the word was used in the DEC PDP-10 documentation and used that way it would clearly apply, for example, to the 9-bit src and dest fields in a COG long. But of course nobody uses the word BYTE that way any more, and not many people were using it that way in 1981; certainly the editors of then superstar BYTE MAGAZINE weren't. I took this as a major hint not to major in CS at that university. (Well, that and having to submit my projects on Hollerith punch cards. Although they did fix that when they bought the VAX in 1982.)
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