I have now bought 2 Nokia cables, neither is the same as that used above, and neither seem to have DTR available. I didn't buy the one ebay linked to in this thread as shipping to the UK was expensive. So just a word of warning to others trying this, it seems very hit and miss (well mainly miss) to get the right board inside, despite the fact that the blue housing looks EXACTLY the same as the one above.
If I manually reset it as I try to program I can get it to work maybe 1 in 3 or 4 attempts, so it does kind of work, so thanks for sharing the idea. I do think the prop plug is overpriced and could put people of expermenting with Propeller, so this at least is a way to get somthing working.
Aquaaddict said...
I have now bought 2 Nokia cables, neither is the same as that used above, and neither seem to have DTR available. I didn't buy the one ebay linked to in this thread as shipping to the UK was expensive. So just a word of warning to others trying this, it seems very hit and miss (well mainly miss) to get the right board inside, despite the fact that the blue housing looks EXACTLY the same as the one above.
If I manually reset it as I try to program I can get it to work maybe 1 in 3 or 4 attempts, so it does kind of work, so thanks for sharing the idea. I do think the prop plug is overpriced and could put people of expermenting with Propeller, so this at least is a way to get somthing working.
Ants
Welcome to the forum.
I also bought a cable. I will not break, I will use for data only.
I think for that price ($2.98) no one can complain, even if you have the misfortune of missing the DTR.
I spent more to make a programming cable, not to mention the work:
- FT232RL ($5.00)
- USB cable ($2.22)
- PCB ($1.00)
- Some components used, tin, case, etc.
Total: $8.22 - $9.50
The Chinese cable has other pluses: better aesthetics, CD for Windows (mine runs on Linux automatically - Chip: PL2303).
Hi, I have attached a couple of pics of the front and reverse of each board in case its of use to anyone else, or if anyone happens to know if there is actually a DTR on either.
I have put a scope on each spare contact pad, and hit F10, and cannot see any activity on any of them (presuming that the level of DTR should change at the start of a program operation in order to trigger the reset).
Sorry if my previous post was a bit negative, I didn't mean it to be; yes a USB - RS232 cable for a few $ /£ is a bargain, and it does sort of work, I just wanted it to be clear to others (espically·beginners)·that there· seem to be a lot of different boards out there, so just becuase it looks the same blue housing dont presume that it it will be the same board inside complete with DTR.
Look for RTS next - PropellerTool can be set to use RTS instead of DTR.
Aquaaddict said...
Hi, I have attached a couple of pics of the front and reverse of each board in case its of use to anyone else, or if anyone happens to know if there is actually a DTR on either.
I have put a scope on each spare contact pad, and hit F10, and cannot see any activity on any of them (presuming that the level of DTR should change at the start of a program operation in order to trigger the reset).
Sorry if my previous post was a bit negative, I didn't mean it to be; yes a USB - RS232 cable for a few $ /£ is a bargain, and it does sort of work, I just wanted it to be clear to others (espically beginners) that there seem to be a lot of different boards out there, so just becuase it looks the same blue housing dont presume that it it will be the same board inside complete with DTR.
Ants
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ www.mikronauts.com Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full Morpheusdual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95 Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Aquaaddict said...
Hi, I have attached a couple of pics of the front and reverse of each board in case its of use to anyone else, or if anyone happens to know if there is actually a DTR on either.
I have put a scope on each spare contact pad, and hit F10, and cannot see any activity on any of them (presuming that the level of DTR should change at the start of a program operation in order to trigger the reset).
Sorry if my previous post was a bit negative, I didn't mean it to be; yes a USB - RS232 cable for a few $ /£ is a bargain, and it does sort of work, I just wanted it to be clear to others (espically beginners) that there seem to be a lot of different boards out there, so just becuase it looks the same blue housing dont presume that it it will be the same board inside complete with DTR.
Ants
These PCBs have many contacts disconnected, but I'm sure some of those have DTR and RTS.
My friend, you have a PL-2303 chip, I know because I was watching the datasheet and the crystal is connected on pins 28 and 27.
Try to identify where is the output of those connections.
Wahooooo!
Enabled both RTS and DTS in Prop tool and probed all the available tracks and pads, still nothing, however·Pin 3 level dipped upon hitting F10, so connected the cap to that and it works!!!
Tried pin 2 again to be sure and nothing on it at all, so cant explain why it appears to have RTS and not DTR, but the main thing is·it programs OK using RTS (with some VERY careful soldering as I can't find pin 3 leading anywhere else so need to solder direct to IC leg).
So thanks very much for your help, and I hope this also helps some others.
If anyone is looking for a cable (other than from the US, as the board in the earlier post seems better / easier), then I got my CA42 cable from here for £2.68 inc postage:
Starlino has been working on a 'PIC stick' that will program the propeller. It also has a windows program to update the PIC (via usb, of course) to program other microcontrollers or even run PIC programs. Hardware and software is all done, I just need to source a few more components before sending it over to get assembled. It will connect to 'backpack' boards like the acc_gyro for more expandability.
It will be a bit cheaper than the PropPlug, but only a few bucks. I agree 100%, the propplug is a barrier to entry but all microcontrollers have this problem. In dreamland, the ucontroller would have built-in usb programming. Cable hacks are fun, but unless the cable is ubiquitous, I'm not sure how useful it is to most beginners.
A VERY simple RS-232 (+/-PHY) dongle would be possible that DOES NOT DEPEND on the propeller target board's Vcc/Vdd if parallax would only address the BUG in Prop-Tool (V1.2.6) where RTS is pulled up/down with DTR no matter how you select the options. I've posted about this several times and asked directly to Parallax Support about this, but I've never received a reply. If the Prop Tool would LEAVE RTS ALONE then we would have a serial port programmer that is pin-compatible with the Prop-Plug/Clip, etc. The circuit would cost around one USD with readily available through hole components World-wide.
No matter how you set the reset option in the propeller tool (edit > preferences > operation > port management > propeller reset signal), DTR only, RTS only, or DTR & RTS, the propeller tool still pulls RTS down with DTR. Doing this prevents the user from using the stable positive RTS signal to power the serial level shifter. You need to derive the level shifter power from the serial port instead of the propeller target in order to be pin-compatible with the prop-plug. Using both hyperterminal and terra-term web in WinXP SP+ I have verified both these programs leave RTS high when hardware handshaking is turned off.
Yes I know there is at least one other way to derive power, from the tx line when transmitting for example, but you have a chicken and egg problem with this method and the propeller, and the circuit may not be compatible with all PC hardware. If only the propeller tool would leave the RTS line alone, then you would have a stable power source for the serial programmer interface.
The complete lack of response to this issue from parallax is leading me to believe this is done by design to promote prop-plug sales. I hate to think that way, but I see no other reasonable explanation. In my past experience, parallax has always been prompt to address propeller tool issues.
For a large majority of classrooms in the World, equipping a 40 seat lab with propellers moves from impossible to possible when you replace a $20 USD prop-plug per seat ($800 USD total) with a $2 serial programmer ($80 USD). Most labs outside the first-world are still equipped with PC that have serial ports. Finally, propeller boards can be made locally for less than the proto-board, and with replaceable DIPs too (when they become available again). I know this first-hand... I live in Jakarta.
I am aware of Brad's BST editor/compiler. But I would like to see this fixed so that it works with the propeller tool.
Drone: Thanks for the explanation. I had not thought about using the RTS line to derive RS232 power. It's an old method and I don't have real RS232 ports any more.
Parallax are busy with other things and the PropTool does not get any attention. Perhaps you could raise a new thread asking for PropTool to be fixed and explain why. Perhaps "PropTool - Ken can you get the RTS bug fixed please??"
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
A few days ago I received another cable from the same vendor. These cables are not as they appear in the photo, but are equal to that in the first post.
I noticed that it has no adhesive and are easy to uncover, and the best is: without breaking anything.
Some notes:
- DTR can be used without a capacitor.. (Best results using the transistor and capacitor).
- A connection is free that could be used to 5 volts or RTS, etc.
- Use FullDuplexSerial with options equal to 0.
Ex.:
This seems to work well for breadboard prototyping. (Not prop plug/clip pin compatible!) No need for all the extra parts, voltages are all 3.3v with proper polarity. You just have to align the DTR pad perfectly and then solder bridge GND a little. Be sure the header plastic is tight against the circuit board and be gentle plugging and removing from the breadboard. The two small red loop-back wires are not necessary either.
I'm confused about the DTR-to-RES connection. First there was a transistor-based circuit, then just a capacitor, and now just a direct connection from DTR to the Propeller's RESn?
Someone smarter than I will need to explain the need for any other parts between this module and the Propeller. It works fine for me just a straight connection. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject and there could be some long term issue with doing it this way? (other than not being prop-plug pin compatible)
Luis Digital said...
Nothing will be damaged by using a direct connection, but you may experience problems when trying to transmit data through the serial port.
Care to elaborate on what "problems" and why? It's worked flawlessly for me so far. I think eliminating the long length of unshielded cable is the biggest help IMO.
This is a bit of a philosophical ramble, but please bear with me!
I've never owned nor needed a prop plug. I got into the Propeller with a Pocketerm board (Briel Computers) www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=6 and that has a standard D9 connector. Too easy, especially for someone like me with an older PC with real serial ports.
When I was designing the dracblade, I figured I wanted two real serial ports with proper RS232 levels, like the Pocketerm. So that meant a max232 was needed. One port doubles as the download circuit. There is always the connundrum of how much do you put in your "download" circuit and how much do you put on your board (which may then end up with unused components once the program is downloaded). But if you already want real serial ports anyway that means you always need a max232 so then the only redundant components are the transistor, two resistors and a cap. Not very expensive, so therefore not worth putting in a "download" circuit.
So - then the connector becomes a standard D9.
I had some cheapie USB to serial adaptors (still $3.95Au on ebay including shipping) which refuse to work programming Picaxe chips, because picaxe use a non standard Break signal where the Tx line is held high for a while. So I had them sitting in a drawer unused, got one out and plugged it in. XP decided after about 30 seconds that it now hat COM3, I ran Brads BST which seemed to find COM3 automatically and now I can program the dracblade with a USB to serial adaptor.
So this was a hack that cost $3.95 and didn't involve any soldering at all.
try changing the com port number to a value of com 8 or lower in windows device manager, under com ports, some programs have a problem with com ports 8 or higher
I use Linux and do not need to install anything.
My cable came with a CD for Windows. I tested with Windows XP and everything went fine. Here I leave the driver without executables.
Where you bought it should have a link to the driver too, or ask your seller.
Comments
If I manually reset it as I try to program I can get it to work maybe 1 in 3 or 4 attempts, so it does kind of work, so thanks for sharing the idea. I do think the prop plug is overpriced and could put people of expermenting with Propeller, so this at least is a way to get somthing working.
Ants
Welcome to the forum.
I also bought a cable.
I think for that price ($2.98) no one can complain, even if you have the misfortune of missing the DTR.
I spent more to make a programming cable, not to mention the work:
- FT232RL ($5.00)
- USB cable ($2.22)
- PCB ($1.00)
- Some components used, tin, case, etc.
Total: $8.22 - $9.50
The Chinese cable has other pluses: better aesthetics, CD for Windows (mine runs on Linux automatically - Chip: PL2303).
I wonder if there will be another cheaper cable.
USB Data Cable&CD for SAMSUNG SGH-D307
Some brave? Do not be cowards are only $2
Edit:
Aquaaddict,
You can put a picture of the PCB? Maybe someone can help you identify DTR or RTS.
Post Edited (Luis Digital) : 12/20/2009 1:29:14 AM GMT
I have put a scope on each spare contact pad, and hit F10, and cannot see any activity on any of them (presuming that the level of DTR should change at the start of a program operation in order to trigger the reset).
Sorry if my previous post was a bit negative, I didn't mean it to be; yes a USB - RS232 cable for a few $ /£ is a bargain, and it does sort of work, I just wanted it to be clear to others (espically·beginners)·that there· seem to be a lot of different boards out there, so just becuase it looks the same blue housing dont presume that it it will be the same board inside complete with DTR.
Ants
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full
Morpheusdual Prop SBC w/ 512KB kit $119.95, Mem+2MB memory IO board kit $89.95, both kits $189.95
Propteus and Proteus for Propeller prototyping 6.250MHz custom Crystals run Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
These PCBs have many contacts disconnected, but I'm sure some of those have DTR and RTS.
My friend, you have a PL-2303 chip, I know because I was watching the datasheet and the crystal is connected on pins 28 and 27.
PL-2303 Datasheets (Chip Rev A)
DTR = Pin 2
RTS = Pin 3
Try to identify where is the output of those connections.
Enabled both RTS and DTS in Prop tool and probed all the available tracks and pads, still nothing, however·Pin 3 level dipped upon hitting F10, so connected the cap to that and it works!!!
Tried pin 2 again to be sure and nothing on it at all, so cant explain why it appears to have RTS and not DTR, but the main thing is·it programs OK using RTS (with some VERY careful soldering as I can't find pin 3 leading anywhere else so need to solder direct to IC leg).
So thanks very much for your help, and I hope this also helps some others.
If anyone is looking for a cable (other than from the US, as the board in the earlier post seems better / easier), then I got my CA42 cable from here for £2.68 inc postage:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290376220129
Thanks,
Ants
It will be a bit cheaper than the PropPlug, but only a few bucks. I agree 100%, the propplug is a barrier to entry but all microcontrollers have this problem. In dreamland, the ucontroller would have built-in usb programming. Cable hacks are fun, but unless the cable is ubiquitous, I'm not sure how useful it is to most beginners.
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Propeller Forums RSS Feed!
Gadget Gangster - Share your Electronic Projects
Here are two possibilities from Sparkfun ($13.95 & $14.95)...
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8772
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=718
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Another solution is to use Brad's bst compiler/ide.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
No matter how you set the reset option in the propeller tool (edit > preferences > operation > port management > propeller reset signal), DTR only, RTS only, or DTR & RTS, the propeller tool still pulls RTS down with DTR. Doing this prevents the user from using the stable positive RTS signal to power the serial level shifter. You need to derive the level shifter power from the serial port instead of the propeller target in order to be pin-compatible with the prop-plug. Using both hyperterminal and terra-term web in WinXP SP+ I have verified both these programs leave RTS high when hardware handshaking is turned off.
Yes I know there is at least one other way to derive power, from the tx line when transmitting for example, but you have a chicken and egg problem with this method and the propeller, and the circuit may not be compatible with all PC hardware. If only the propeller tool would leave the RTS line alone, then you would have a stable power source for the serial programmer interface.
The complete lack of response to this issue from parallax is leading me to believe this is done by design to promote prop-plug sales. I hate to think that way, but I see no other reasonable explanation. In my past experience, parallax has always been prompt to address propeller tool issues.
For a large majority of classrooms in the World, equipping a 40 seat lab with propellers moves from impossible to possible when you replace a $20 USD prop-plug per seat ($800 USD total) with a $2 serial programmer ($80 USD). Most labs outside the first-world are still equipped with PC that have serial ports. Finally, propeller boards can be made locally for less than the proto-board, and with replaceable DIPs too (when they become available again). I know this first-hand... I live in Jakarta.
I am aware of Brad's BST editor/compiler. But I would like to see this fixed so that it works with the propeller tool.
Regards, David
Parallax are busy with other things and the PropTool does not get any attention. Perhaps you could raise a new thread asking for PropTool to be fixed and explain why. Perhaps "PropTool - Ken can you get the RTS bug fixed please??"
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBlade,·RamBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: CPUs Z80 etc; Micros Altair etc;· Terminals·VT100 etc; (Index) ZiCog (Z80) , MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums·(uses advanced Google search)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
A few days ago I received another cable from the same vendor. These cables are not as they appear in the photo, but are equal to that in the first post.
I noticed that it has no adhesive and are easy to uncover, and the best is: without breaking anything.
Some notes:
- DTR can be used without a capacitor.. (Best results using the transistor and capacitor).
- A connection is free that could be used to 5 volts or RTS, etc.
- Use FullDuplexSerial with options equal to 0.
Ex.:
-Link: USB Data Cable for Nokia CA-42
- Happy New Year.
Care to elaborate on what "problems" and why? It's worked flawlessly for me so far. I think eliminating the long length of unshielded cable is the biggest help IMO.
Post Edited (Shmoopy) : 1/4/2010 2:21:59 AM GMT
I think there's another entry where we talk about it.
I've never owned nor needed a prop plug. I got into the Propeller with a Pocketerm board (Briel Computers) www.brielcomputers.com/wordpress/?cat=6 and that has a standard D9 connector. Too easy, especially for someone like me with an older PC with real serial ports.
When I was designing the dracblade, I figured I wanted two real serial ports with proper RS232 levels, like the Pocketerm. So that meant a max232 was needed. One port doubles as the download circuit. There is always the connundrum of how much do you put in your "download" circuit and how much do you put on your board (which may then end up with unused components once the program is downloaded). But if you already want real serial ports anyway that means you always need a max232 so then the only redundant components are the transistor, two resistors and a cap. Not very expensive, so therefore not worth putting in a "download" circuit.
So - then the connector becomes a standard D9.
I had some cheapie USB to serial adaptors (still $3.95Au on ebay including shipping) which refuse to work programming Picaxe chips, because picaxe use a non standard Break signal where the Tx line is held high for a while. So I had them sitting in a drawer unused, got one out and plugged it in. XP decided after about 30 seconds that it now hat COM3, I ran Brads BST which seemed to find COM3 automatically and now I can program the dracblade with a USB to serial adaptor.
So this was a hack that cost $3.95 and didn't involve any soldering at all.
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www.smarthome.viviti.com/propeller
Looking at the photo you posted of the CA-42, the wires to the Propeller are black, green, white, blue—is that correct?
Did you modify the internal circuitry? I'm not having any luck with mine.
Yes, I modified the green wire to DTR.
If it's for data, no need to change anything.
www.uchobby.com/index.php/2009/10/04/diy-usb-to-serial-cable-for-3/
Optionally you can use the small reset circuit with a transistor, resistance, and capacitor.
Propeller Tool continues to report "Unable to write to COM11" (it said this before and after the green wire/DTR modification).
Any idea what might be causing this?
RX and TX (white-blue) together and observe the echo in a terminal program.
What are other XP users' experiences?
Yes.
I use Linux and do not need to install anything.
My cable came with a CD for Windows. I tested with Windows XP and everything went fine. Here I leave the driver without executables.
Where you bought it should have a link to the driver too, or ask your seller.
Good luck.