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Has anyone used the propeller chip for automotive use? — Parallax Forums

Has anyone used the propeller chip for automotive use?

turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
edited 2009-09-27 06:56 in Propeller 1
Has anyone used the propeller chip in automotive use, with rpm input?

Does anyone have an example code or circuits for this? Or can post their experiences?

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-09-23 16:41
    There have been several people who have posted to threads discussing their use of a Propeller in an automotive environment. You'll need to browse the Propeller forum thread list or try the Google search engine (search.parallax.com).

    You'll get more information if you give some information about what you're trying to do and perhaps what you've tried so far and your experience level.
  • HH Posts: 21
    edited 2009-09-23 17:20
    PROP
    I'd recommend a switchmode regulator, good filtering, and preferably isolated ground, even if this forces you to use optocouplers.

    The electrical noise, and hazards for electronics in a automotive environment is challenging.

    You'll face a noisy electrical supply, alternator and regulator are far from perfect, and the occasional high amp relays turning on and off, sending spikes into the electronics.

    Placing the prop to close to any electromagnetic source / sparking, can cause problems if you don't take this into consideration.
    Sparking from adjecent relays cause noise on inputs, the reset circuitry is the most noticable, obviously, but you can get the occasional false signal on any input pin.

    High temperatur drift on any analogue sensor / circuitry.
    Dirt, water and dust, you must ensure proper encapsulation both of circuitry, sensors and connectors.

    During cranking of the engine, battery voltage may drop to half when temperature is below 0*Celsius.


    RPM
    The rpm sensor of different engines varies, but in my experience (old volvo turbo diesels) it supplies the rmp in milivolts via a magnetic pickup on a gear.

    my first attemt to interface to this kind of pickup was by amplifying the positive pulses with a transistor and a filter
    resulted in a accuracy of +-20 rpms, but periodic spikes so software smoothing was necessary.

    So on the current project, where I need to precisely adjust the fuel supply to keep a constant rpm I'll be using a low drop diode bridge, connected to adc
    and compensate for the voltagedrop in software.

    It might be easier to just use a halleffect with logic output, again this depends on what you're trying to archieve.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-23 18:34
    Thanks for the replies all


    This will be an in cabin device. I am a novice at circuitry and inbetween a novice/intermediate with programming


    My goal is this

    I'd like to have my propeller chip output a specific voltage when my car is off, ignition is on ~ 1.63vdc, then when the car starts (rpm signal) and an outside trigger is received, for it to ramp up to ~1.85vdc, as that trigger releases, to spike to ~2.04vdc and then to fall down to between 1.45vdc and 1.6vdc, and oscillate between that changing once or twice per second.


    If I can get this circuit to work, I'd then like the ability to trigger a few low sides based on rpm.


    Does this sound feasible? By the way, awesome circuit Erik!


    @Havard - I have to admit that you lost me on the spike filtering a little
  • Agent420Agent420 Posts: 439
    edited 2009-09-23 19:13
    >This will be an in cabin device

    That doesn't really help, automobile power is equally poor at all points.

    Sounds like your trying to do some kind of engine control?· Turbo?· Fuel mix?

    Fwiw, JayCar sells a lot of that stuff at good prices.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-23 19:39
    The reason I said in cabin, was just to say it will not be exposed to the elements, the EMI is still present of course.

    I've looked through Jcar, they don't have anything close to what I need as far as the voltage stuff, so I guess I'll have to build my own [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    It won't adjust fuel or boost, but is for a small test project I'm trying to do.



    Agent420 said...
    >This will be an in cabin device


    That doesn't really help, automobile power is equally poor at all points.



    Sounds like your trying to do some kind of engine control? Turbo? Fuel mix?



    Fwiw, JayCar sells a lot of that stuff at good prices.
  • Nick MuellerNick Mueller Posts: 815
    edited 2009-09-23 19:46
    I can only double H
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-23 20:26
    I believe you both, but I'd like to try?


    Nick Mueller said...
    I can only double H
  • icepuckicepuck Posts: 466
    edited 2009-09-23 21:27
    Wire diagrams/schematics from an oem service manual is almost a necessity when interfacing to the vehicle electrical sytem.

    www.auto-facts.org/autorepairmanuals.html
    www.alldatadiy.com/
    -dan

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Arguing with myself--sometimes me, myself, and I don't always agree.
    Of the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-24 01:18
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2009-09-24 02:02
    I use a 5v regulator rated for up to 30+v, then use a tvs to keep that below that, as otherwise it likely will blow the regulator occasionally.

    I prefer using a npn and a pullup on the inputs, as a good old bipolar transistor is more resistant to high voltage spikes than cmos inputs, plus you can tailor the threshold with your resistors to match the voltage levels.

    Also, it is highly unlikely that many cars actually have a tach signal coming up to the obdII port. You can use a fuel injector wire also, but there would be no tach signal when decelerating.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-24 03:25
    Do you have a schematic?

    If I understand this correctly, 11v to 14v going into the transient voltage suppressor, then into the 5v reg and then into the propeller chip? Do you feed it into the vss pin? I have a Toyota very similar to his, although I was planning on using the ignition signal for coil #1 coming out of the ecu, and not an obd2 port even though I thought obd2 was a standard, so that all cars had the same data coming in and out, in the same format?

    Do you use the npn and resistor to feed specific voltage values into one of the i/o's?



    Erik Friesen said...
    I use a 5v regulator rated for up to 30+v, then use a tvs to keep that below that, as otherwise it likely will blow the regulator occasionally.

    I prefer using a npn and a pullup on the inputs, as a good old bipolar transistor is more resistant to high voltage spikes than cmos inputs, plus you can tailor the threshold with your resistors to match the voltage levels.

    Also, it is highly unlikely that many cars actually have a tach signal coming up to the obdII port. You can use a fuel injector wire also, but there would be no tach signal when decelerating.
  • Nick MuellerNick Mueller Posts: 815
    edited 2009-09-24 06:07
    > I believe you both, but I'd like to try?

    It wasn't meant to stop you from having fun! smile.gif
    Every line that is going to or from your board will work like an antenna picking up any noise. Every input should have a R then a small C and fast clamping diodes to Vcc and Vss. Output should at least have an R.

    Don't be astonished if your circuit works on the kitchen table, but not in the car.


    Nick

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

    The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
    YADRO
  • SexieWASDSexieWASD Posts: 41
    edited 2009-09-24 11:33
    I thought that I would throw this out there because it seams relevant, http://forums.parallaxinc.com/techinfo.toyota.com/ It costs $10 for a day of access, but they have the complete wire diagram's and component locations for almost all toyota's as well as many other very useful documents in PDF format.
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2009-09-24 12:14
    I like to step it down to 5v and then to 3.3 with a smaller regulator. There is a bit of info out there on TVS. I'd use something close to 1.5ka20 from vishay which is designed for automotive use.

    U7 is a schmitt trigger nc7s14, I think. I am using an opto for the fuel injector which works well.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-24 17:44
    Thanks!

    They made it $15 for 2 days now, haha

    I actually downloaded all the pdf files I could from that, when I had my 2 day subscription, in case anyone wants to see the documents.

    I also just bought the full factory service manuals yesterday [noparse]:)[/noparse]


    SexieWASD said...
    I thought that I would throw this out there because it seams relevant, http://forums.parallaxinc.com/techinfo.toyota.com/ It costs $10 for a day of access, but they have the complete wire diagram's and component locations for almost all toyota's as well as many other very useful documents in PDF format.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-24 18:22
    Thank you very much Erik.

    How much is it for you breadboard + all of the components necessary to build it out of curiosity?


    Erik Friesen said...
    I like to step it down to 5v and then to 3.3 with a smaller regulator. There is a bit of info out there on TVS. I'd use something close to 1.5ka20 from vishay which is designed for automotive use.

    U7 is a schmitt trigger nc7s14, I think. I am using an opto for the fuel injector which works well.
  • Erik FriesenErik Friesen Posts: 1,071
    edited 2009-09-24 20:58
    I get about $70-$80 in parts + board into these.
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-25 01:44
    I believe I'm going to try what Stan Boyd did feed ignition signals into his chip. A simple resistor and zener diode that dumps anything over 5v I believe

    If not, I can build a schmitt trigger out of a 555 timer circuit, correct? And use that to buffer the rpm signal input from the trigger wire that goes to coil pack #1?


    rpmbasicstamp2.jpg


    555buff.gif
  • Nick MuellerNick Mueller Posts: 815
    edited 2009-09-25 05:57
    I doubt that a Zener is fast enough (but I didn't find a datasheet with specs re speed). And a 5V Zener isn't OK, you would need a 3.3V.
    Connect two faster (1N4148) diodes to Vcc and Vss behind the R.
    Behind the phone jack, I would pace an R (about 100R) to make a filter. And an extra 100nF parallel to C1.
    Or a chocke coil.

    As drawn, this certainly won't work in a car.


    Nick

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

    The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
    YADRO
  • turbosupraturbosupra Posts: 1,088
    edited 2009-09-27 04:03
    So does VDD on the basic stamp = VCC on the propeller? I'm also guessing (as I haven't received my propeller or its documentation yet) that 3.3v is the max the VCC pin should see?

    And the phone jack are you referring to the LM2940 voltage regulator or the terminal block?



    Nick Mueller said...
    I doubt that a Zener is fast enough (but I didn't find a datasheet with specs re speed). And a 5V Zener isn't OK, you would need a 3.3V.
    Connect two faster (1N4148) diodes to Vcc and Vss behind the R.
    Behind the phone jack, I would pace an R (about 100R) to make a filter. And an extra 100nF parallel to C1.
    Or a chocke coil.

    As drawn, this certainly won't work in a car.


    Nick
  • Nick MuellerNick Mueller Posts: 815
    edited 2009-09-27 06:56
    > And the phone jack are you referring to the LM2940 voltage regulator or the terminal block?

    Sorry, I should have written "power jack".
    Yes, the Prop works with 3.3 V.


    Nick

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!

    The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
    YADRO
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