Spin easier than Stamp BASIC - am I the only one?
RevAaron
Posts: 30
Yet another Propeller vs Stamp thread? Yes and no.
I work (at least, for a few more days) at a small engineering company that does work with control and automation. The boss and I like to chat about the Propellers, Arduinos, and PICs (18Fx550 and dsPIC) I've been playing with on and off the clock. The other day, he pulled out an unopened bag of goodies from DigiKey- a BasicStamp ][noparse][[/noparse] and carrier board, straight from 1995. Original 3.5" software disk, too- though I downloaded the newest version from Parallax before diving in.
I used to read the Microcomputer Journal, and lusted after the adverts for the Stamp. The idea of a small computer running on a 9V battery was the best kind of nerd porn for me in those days. But I never got the chance to play, back then- I was 14-16 at the time, and if I recall correctly the Stamps were out of my meager budget at $99. A great deal considering you didn't need an EPROM eraser and a PIC programmer, but still too much for me.
Because of those fond memories, I was pretty excited to play around with the virgin Stamp that my boss dug up. Don't get me wrong, it's capable enough and in a tiny package- but the experience I've had has led me to wondering why there's so much of a fuss with learning Spin? Other than doing more trivial tasks, so far I've felt limited and rather frustrated by Stamp BASIC. BASIC has so many little inconsistent rules that it's hard for me to code without consulting the manual... Give me Spin any day.
We'd be more than happy to trade the BS2 *and* BS2 Carrier board for a Spin Stamp, if anyone is interested. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Anyway, just my 2c...
I work (at least, for a few more days) at a small engineering company that does work with control and automation. The boss and I like to chat about the Propellers, Arduinos, and PICs (18Fx550 and dsPIC) I've been playing with on and off the clock. The other day, he pulled out an unopened bag of goodies from DigiKey- a BasicStamp ][noparse][[/noparse] and carrier board, straight from 1995. Original 3.5" software disk, too- though I downloaded the newest version from Parallax before diving in.
I used to read the Microcomputer Journal, and lusted after the adverts for the Stamp. The idea of a small computer running on a 9V battery was the best kind of nerd porn for me in those days. But I never got the chance to play, back then- I was 14-16 at the time, and if I recall correctly the Stamps were out of my meager budget at $99. A great deal considering you didn't need an EPROM eraser and a PIC programmer, but still too much for me.
Because of those fond memories, I was pretty excited to play around with the virgin Stamp that my boss dug up. Don't get me wrong, it's capable enough and in a tiny package- but the experience I've had has led me to wondering why there's so much of a fuss with learning Spin? Other than doing more trivial tasks, so far I've felt limited and rather frustrated by Stamp BASIC. BASIC has so many little inconsistent rules that it's hard for me to code without consulting the manual... Give me Spin any day.
We'd be more than happy to trade the BS2 *and* BS2 Carrier board for a Spin Stamp, if anyone is interested. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Anyway, just my 2c...
Comments
Where I can understand some people having more difficulty is the Propeller's use of objects and multiple cogs to provide features that are built into Basic...· things like serial io, lcd, string functions and other hardware aspects that are almost one-liners in Basic require referencing external Objects in Spin in order to get similar functionality.· There are pro's and con's to each method, but probably the versatility of doing it the Spin way wins in the end.· Under the hood, that is what Basic is actually doing anyway, only you don't have much opportunity to modify it's operation should the need arise.
Finally, while it is not really Spin aspect, the related understanding of parallel processing takes some time to really learn and appreciate, and understand when and how to best utilize.
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Post Edited (Agent420) : 9/9/2009 4:30:14 PM GMT
I propose (someone prove me wrong?) that the vast majority of people who use Basic Stamps find PBASIC as one of their first programming languages. This sets the mold for them, and unless they are driven for some reason to learn something different, they will find Spin or C mildly daunting. I've seen this happen with hardware industry types.
PBASIC has been good for Parallax since it creates an "Economic Moat" or a barrier to entry/exit the Parallax Castle. I'm curious actually why Parallax would do anything to degrade that Economic Moat. Obviously a variation of PBASIC for the Propeller would help keep all those repeat customers in the castle. This is also why PropSX/B makes sense (with SX the chip EOL).
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--Steve
Propeller Tools
I have however spent years programming is various dialects of BASIC, from BASICA, BASIC 2.0, GWBASIC, QBASIC,
(and the list goes on and on....)
Things I don't miss.. (and NEVER WILL)
GOTO/GOSUB (Took me a bit to get used to, but it's SO MUCH easier without them!)
LINE NUMBERS (Goodbye, and good riddance!)
Thing I still miss... (A little)
STRINGS! RIGHT$ MID$ LEFT$
DATA statements
After playing with the Propeller, then trying the BASIC STAMP, I found the language to
be very restrictive. (Hows that for perspective)
@Jazzed:
I'm not following your logic.. Why would you want a barrier to entry????
The $80 price tag on the BASIC STAMP is what kept me from getting into Parallax back in 2005.
It wasn't until I purchased a VERY inexpensive PICAXE and made sure I was going to enjoy
working with microprocessors, then outgrowing it and moving to the Propeller that brought
me here.
OBC
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A business "Barrier to entry" secures a businesses market position by keeping competitors out.
A business "Barrier to exit" secures a business market position profit by keeping customers in.
This defines an "Economic Moat."
Examples: company size, ease of use, product price (Walmart or Mercedes), product investment cost, willingness to go public and secure operating capital, patent portfolio, market share penetration, special programming language, product reliability, technical support, the Propeller forum.
A customer "Barrier to entry" is something that kept you as a user from participating. The price / value proposition was good enough to attract and keep many, many other users though and provide enough "organic" growth to allow for the Propeller and Chip's leisure (or sunburn) on the (Walnut?) Farm. Unfortunately, the Propeller arrived too late to fend off the Arduino and other fleet footed (faster time to market) competitors. Propeller II may be less effective on the market for similar reasons, but it will help keep up the "Barrier to exit" [noparse]:)[/noparse]
The Stamp price customer barrier of course was a little damaging to the Parallax business since others obviously took advantage of the situation by copying the product idea (Atom Stamp?), or other variations like you mentioned. The company and volume was apparently not big enough to fend off various attacks to the enviable market share position. If nothing else though, Parallax can enjoy "the greatest form of flattery".
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--Steve
Propeller Tools
OBC
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Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.