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My goal: Linux + Prop SBC — Parallax Forums

My goal: Linux + Prop SBC

VaatiVaati Posts: 712
edited 2009-09-05 03:38 in Propeller 1
I would love to make a single board computer for the prop that can run Linux.· smile.gif Would that be possible with a bladed propeller?

I also found this site, which is very interesting...


So, is it possible?

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Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-09-01 13:22
    You will need to use a large external SRAM (like 512K or more) and some kind of interpreter that interprets code from this SRAM. There's some early work in Catalina to provide C compilation for such an XMM (eXternal Memory Model) interpreter. See the Catalina thread for details: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=827761.
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-09-01 14:01
    Also the Linux kernel, and probably uclinux will not compile without some exra features of GCC that are not exactly any C standard yet. So first you will need to add a Propeller LMM target to GCC.

    I think the way to do this is to bolt a Prop or two to a Linux running ARM processor and some big load of memory for it. Linux does computing stuff and networking on the ARM, Prop(s) does I/O, display, real-time stuff. Ideal partnership.

    Need not be a very big or expensive board now a days. It could host BST so you can develop the Prop code on the target (almost).

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-09-01 14:40
    Vaati said...
    I would love to make a single board computer for the prop that can run Linux. smile.gif Would that be possible with a bladed propeller?

    So, is it possible?

    Not easily. Linux relies on some extensions to GCC that the current C compilers just don't have.

    Do you use Linux on a daily basis? Why would you want to run Linux on a microcontroller?

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    lt's not particularly silly, is it?
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2009-09-01 14:45
    Hello Vaati,

    You may want to check out Minix as an alternate way of getting a Linux style OS on the Propeller. Some links that may help you get started are:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINIX

    http://www.minix3.org/

    I was looking at this as a possible OS for an older 8088 based computer. Perhaps it may apply to the Propeller.

    Robert
  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-09-01 14:50
    Aha! That's the one I meant. Thanks!

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    Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

    *-NEW-* SD Card Adapter·Now available!· Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-09-01 14:57
    RobotWorkshop said...
    Hello Vaati,

    You may want to check out Minix as an alternate way of getting a Linux style OS on the Propeller. Some links that may help you get started are:

    Minix is somewhat more tied to an x86 architecture. Unless you have pretty good experience with Minix or *nix architectures then porting might be a *tad* complex, but then the Minix core is only about 4k lines of C. Drivers are another matter entirely.

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    lt's not particularly silly, is it?
  • hinvhinv Posts: 1,255
    edited 2009-09-03 13:29
    You could take an existing ARM or MIPS based embedded board and connect it to the prop. Take the WGT634U netgear router for example. First, they are inexpensive at around $40 on ebay. Second, they run linux with 32MB of SDRAM. Third, they have network interfaces already built in. They have some unused IO/s on the board as well. They are fairly low power, but I have not measured that yet.
    There are many other routers out there that run ARM as well if you like that flavor.

    I hope this gives you some ideas.


    Doug
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-09-03 14:06
    Hinv, yes indeed. A couple of years I was working for a company that designed it's own ARM boards for its products with Atmel ARMs. Euro card form factor, lots of RAM and FLASH space. Ethernet and serial ports. We junked VxWorks and put Linux on them. Which is what got me thinking, plenty of room on those boards for a Prop or two.

    I'd really like this solution on one board with a healthy number of I/O between ARM and Prop.

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    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • ericballericball Posts: 774
    edited 2009-09-03 15:37
    @Vaati - My question is why? Or more precisely - what do you wish to accomplish? Although it may be possible to "make a single board computer for the prop that can run Linux" (anything is possible given sufficient time, money and effort), there may be easier ways to accomplish your desired result.

    Put simply - the Propeller is not a good fit for Linux, nor Linux for the Propeller. The primary limitation of the Propeller is RAM - you will need some kind of external RAM which will rob the Propeller of I/O and performance. You will also need some kind of storage the filesystem can be built on. Then build up PASM drivers for any I/O devices - network & serial terminal to start with.

    OTOH you can take the source for a Linux application and rework it to run on the Propeller and probably accomplish the same goal with less TM&E.

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-09-03 15:46
    Well, I think Minix is a better choice.

    The entire reason is to make a computer that I an use to program a prop. It would be an OS with a "propeller tool" and it can program another prop on a COM port.
    Another reason is because... It would be fun! smile.gif


    If I can get an OS that can actually acknowledge an .exe file, I will be happy.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!

    *-NEW-* SD Card Adapter·Now available!· Add extra memory to your next Propeller project with ease!
  • hinvhinv Posts: 1,255
    edited 2009-09-03 16:42
    Why not build up from sphynx & propdos on morpheus? It seems to be the best complete large memory solution for the propeller.
    If you want to start from scratch, I can understand the sense of accomplishment in doing that, and the tremendous experience you will gain.

    Go for it.

    Doug
  • hinvhinv Posts: 1,255
    edited 2009-09-05 03:38
    Hi Vaati,

    I just remembered something. If you aren't for designing from scratch, but just building, Ale has a nice bit of hardware with a 68020 and a couple of props on it. It looks pretty neat, and I believe it will run a flavor of linux.

    From Ale's signature:
    Visit the home of pPropQL, pPropQL020 and OMU for the pPropQL/020 at omnibus.uni-freiburg.de/~rp92
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