Free to good home: 3 Microchip PICs
WBA Consulting
Posts: 2,935
I have been trying to clear out some things in my "project" drawers and came across 3 boards that I have no use for. They are still sealed in ESD bags from 2 years ago. They have a PIC on them that costs $10 each so I figure that someone may want them. If so, I will desolder them from the boards and mail them out. If no one is intersted, they'll just go to the recycler. They are:
Microchip PIC18F458-I/L (PLCC 44 package)
search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=PIC18F458-I/L-ND
If interested, please post a number between 1 and 100. I'll pick someone after a couple days so it's just not the first to respond that gets them.
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
IT / Web / PCB / Audio
Microchip PIC18F458-I/L (PLCC 44 package)
search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=PIC18F458-I/L-ND
If interested, please post a number between 1 and 100. I'll pick someone after a couple days so it's just not the first to respond that gets them.
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
IT / Web / PCB / Audio
Comments
sqrt -1
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
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That doesn't fit the requirement because it's not a number: "i is the square root of minus one, known as the imaginary unit." (Wikipedia)
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
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Mike2545
This message sent to you on 100% recycled electrons.
The answer is in fact '42'.
Oh oh - at the risk of starting YAHPD (yet another hot philosophical debate [noparse]:)[/noparse], Mctrivia may have *automatically won* because Andrew (WBA) did not specify what·category of "number"·(Integer, Real, Imaginary, Complex) he wanted.··"Sure pick a number between x and y" usually means an integer - but that doesn't exclude imaginary numbers attached to them. He would have had to say "pick a·non-complex·Integer (or·Real)" to have excluded mctrivia's·clever answer. ·It's a common misconception, SRLM, that "imaginary" unit, ·or imaginary number, is 'fictitious' because it's, well, 'imaginary'.··· Any integer or real can have an infinite amount of imaginary numbers attached to them. Therefore, the sqrt(-1) can be attached to any 1 to 100 number. However, Andrew actually said "post a number between 1 and 100" --- so why does the 'between' nullify my argument above ?· (Prize = 5 big smiley faces [noparse]:)[/noparse]
- H
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If srqt(-1) is "the imaginary unit", then answering the question "Pick a number" is like answering a question "How tall are you?" with "feet". Therefore, it doesn't fit the requirement of a number.
Additionally, 1 to 100 is a set of real numbers, while a number containing i is a complex number. If you think of it as a graph, mctrivia gave the coordinate (0,1), while Andrew was asking for (x, 0) where 1 < x < 100.
As a side note while doing some reasearch, I saw this page. I wonder if it could be used as a faster method of finding prime numbers?
4+5i is located 5 units above 4.
using i you can extremely easily calculate RCL circuits treating caps and inductors like imaginary valued resisters.
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
Thanks for the opportunity!
Dave X
Rich H
My number is 355/113 but I don't need any pics. In fact, I should probably give mine away too...
Post Edited (W9GFO) : 8/8/2009 6:45:35 AM GMT
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The Truth is out there············································ BoogerWoods, FL. USA
(OK, I stand corrected [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Well, I'll have to respectfully disagree with·both of you gentlemen.· The "above" (Argand diagram)·and "Imaginary" (a bad name that stuck) are both thought crutches. "How tall are you" would be answered this way in analogy: "I am 6 foot orange".· The imaginary units are an *additional* degree of freedom.· A two dimensional object is undefined in a one dimensional space.
>Additionally, 1 to 100 is a set of real numbers,
Not necesssarily, unless you·defined it that way.· So I could answer 42.98832 ?· We could also say
1 to 100 is a set of Integer numbers OR
1 to 100 is a set of complex numbers (which have at least one degree more of freedom) OR
1 to 100 is a set of hyperreal numbers (which have an infinite number of degrees of freedom associated with 'each' real number)
Again, a "number" is generic - it is neither real, imaginary, or complex.· Andrew did not specify - you guys are both·refining it after the fact -·that's fine, but that was·at least one point I was pedantically making. Music is sound, but sound is not necessarily music.·
> Andrew was asking for (x, 0)
No, he was asking merely for (X) - without clearly defining what category 'X' belongs to. (If you think this is nit picking, go research a list server called "FOM" (Foundations Of Mathematics) Where·we (me too) would have our collective behinds torched for our mathematical naivete here [noparse]:)[/noparse])
So, what kind of numbers are these:
0 + 5i
and
5 + 0i
(BTW guys I'm not·trying to argue per se -- this is just one of my favorite topics and not too many people are this geeky.)
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Sure.
Why do you say that? To add another analogy to the muddied waters of our discussion, that's like saying a parabola can be either a subset of the sine wave or a parabola, your choice. It may look similar at first blush, but they certainly aren't the same thing.
ell, how about what's six times seven? Or how many Vogons does it take to change a lightbulb? Here's one! How many roads must a man walk down?
Sheez, I thought we were all geeks here. Everybody should have read that book.
Carl
1) I was only looking for real numbers, but I guess I didn't specify.
2) Since I have read Isaac Asimov's "Relativity of Wrong" essay several times, I would have to admit that there is no truly wrong answer, only less right answers. The basis of the essay is that our school's teaching structure is poor because we teach kids that there is only one right answer, everything else is wrong. 2+2=4 and only 4. If 1st grader "johnny" were to answer "square root of 16" he would be wrong, but his answer shows a level of cognitive ability that should not be overlooked. If the question is "how do you spell "sugar" and two kids answer: a) S-U-G-A-R and b)C12H22O11, who is right and who is "wrong"
We were all taught that people who thought the Earth was flat were wrong, but were they? To a degree, it is flat, depending on your resolution of measurement tools. (the curvature is nearly 0 per mile)
In looking at Earth as a whole, yes they were wrong. However, people still say the Earth is round or spherical, but by definition of those words, that is incorrect as well. Earth is a little flattened at the poles, so technically, the Earth is an "oblate spheriod"
3) As for the number 42, it is also the answer to this question: If you were born on the the north pole of the planet Uranus during sunrise, how old would you be (in Earth years) at sunset?
4) I'll be picking a recipient on Tuesday and requesting a PM for an address.
5) I would say that "i" is my favorite, but wouldn't that make me conceited........
Keep up the interesting posts on the numbers.
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
IT / Web / PCB / Audio
'cause it's a nice round number
>· I would have to admit that there is no truly wrong answer, only less right answers.·[noparse][[/noparse]...]
> ·If the question is "how do you spell "sugar" and two kids answer: a) S-U-G-A-R and b)C12H22O11, who is right and who is "wrong"
Well said - part of why I posted what I did was to show how wide open math really is - it's probably the most dynamic language of all we have so far.
> Keep up the interesting posts on the numbers.
OK - here we go...
Actually, I'm trying to clear the waters because the common usage of these terms had already muddied the waters before we even started discussing this cool topic.
> that's like saying a parabola can be either a subset of the sine wave or a parabola, your choice.
That *IS* your choice.·· WBA described the bigger picture well - it's definitions and perspective. Again, on the more precise and more sophisticated level we are entering here, careful use of terms and structures are essential. Please let me pick apart your statement as an example.
A parabola is not a subset of a parabola - it is a category (class) of curve. Of course a *specific* parabola IS a subset of the class of 'Parabola'.
OK, big deal, right?
> that's like saying a parabola can be either a subset of the sine wave
Thanks for a good example - a parabola CAN BE a subset of the sine wave.· Again it's like the 'numbers' issue. I do understand that you ment a 'simple' parabola and a 'simple' sine wave. But as WBA hints at, a 'higher' level of cognitive work allows us to define 'parabola' and 'sine wave' UNDER the same category of curve. With projective geometry, you can make them (fully? nearly?)·topologically equivalent.· Even without projection, a parabola and a circle belong to the class of "conic section". And motion around a circle is simple harmonic - consider that if you move a point around a circle, then turn that circle on its side (in space), the point will appear to oscillate back and forth. Let's make that point an LED. If you then move that tipped-over circle "up" in space at·a constant speed fast enough to fool your eye, the curve will be a sine wave.·(I think - I have to calculate it later - it's at least a trig curve, which can be transformed into a sinusoid.)·What have we done then mathematically? We have projected one space into another and then used parameters to transform again.··
> It may look similar at first blush, but they certainly aren't the same thing.
But in a 3-d *projective* space they ARE the same thing! And, algorithmically, you can make them function the same way!
That's why I asked about 0+5i and 5+0i --- to point out that a more sophisticated equation can represent a reduced function.·A plane is a line·- if the plane is turned on its edge.· A line is a point if turned on its 'end'. A complex number is a real, if the complex is projected (reduced) into/onto the reals. A parabola IS a circle when the plane slicing the cone intersects the cone's height axis at 90 deg.· Parametrically move both the plane to project the parabola's "ends" to infinity and back again (it's still a circle!)·and move the underlying cone through space: A parabola becomes a sine wave.· All conic sections can be trigonometrically described --- but you have to allow for another "imaginary type number" and that is of course "infinity". Which is perfectly acceptable in projective geometry and to a certain extent in calculus - but it's an on-going debate in number theory still after 100 years.
This stuff isn't imaginary - without 'i' the atom would not have been split. I don't think the Bomb is an imagination (a nightmare, yes, fictitious, no).
- H
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Blame mctrivia, he started it! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
@CRP
I'm afraid I'm going to have to concede. I don't have the mathematical intelligence to debate any further (the best I have is that projective geometry only uses lines and points, which is a petty argument of definitions). I'm still not quite sure that the projection from a parabola is a sine wave (what if I said hyperbola?), but I'll pass.
"Projective geometry also includes a full theory of conic sections, a subject already very well developed in Euclidean geometry. There are clear advantages in being able to think of a hyperbola and an ellipse as distinguished only by the way the hyperbola lies across the line at infinity; and that a parabola is distinguished only by being tangent to the same line. The whole family of circles can be seen as conics passing through two given points on the line at infinity ..."
> I'm still not quite sure that the projection from a parabola is a sine wave
Even though you 'pass' I have to clarify that other wise it might be confusing for someone else reading this. You can "transform" these curves into each other using the tools of projective geometry and they can also be done programmatically, parametrically. I also *think* you can do it with a more complicated form of trig. curve (but I can't find my notes on how at the moment.)
> Blame mctrivia, he started it! [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Yeah, let's 'project' it on him!....·mctrivia - look at this imaginary mess you got us into! :-P
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
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Anyhow, that means I need an address in a PM from $WMc%.
thanks all for joining this thread and making it fun!
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Andrew Williams
WBA Consulting
IT / Web / PCB / Audio
- Ability to read is mandatory
- Ability to stay on the subject is appreciated.
- “ If you can’t impress with brilliance dazzle with BS” should be avoided.
·@vaclav - eh?·· I thought about this for a bit, and decided to post afterall because your 3 points seem OTT to me.
> 1. Ability to read is mandatory
That's silly - even if you can't read, there's accessibility text-to-voice readers.
> 2. Ability to stay on the subject is appreciated
Well, that's boring in the sandbox - no one posting here in this thread, I'm pretty sure, ever lost sight of WBA's intention in his first post ... we were playing and waiting for the winner - what's wrong with a fun thread drift when everyone knows the bigger picture?· Sure, I can understand seeing the subject and then coming across an odd discussion on number theory, but Man, come on·- such multiple threads inside a thread are far more common on forums than not. Look - even your reply and my response may well cause thread drift into a now totally unrelated subject!· Therefore, I conclude that your next statement was not intended to teach us, but rather to irk some posters in this thread. OK - before we lock horns, let me say - I won't - and I'll give you the benefit of doubt that you are sincerely not comfortable with some things we discussed here, but:
>3. “ If you can’t impress with brilliance dazzle with BS” should be avoided
strikes me as·so non - sequitur that I reread this whole thread from start to finish. I see no BS here, nor anyone attempting to "impress" ... it seems to me that·people here in the forums *usually* don't have need to 'impress' --- and when they do, they are usually always called to the carpet- witness the recent, on-going Prop threads re artificial intelligence.· There are some very VERY smart people hanging out here. I really appreciate learning from them, and enjoy engaging with them because it helps me get better at discussing some of these complex subjects. (You have to practice writing to become good enough at it to communicate clearly to others.)
If you don't understand something - or are not comfortable with the subject, wouldn't it be more helpful to ask a question, politely point out the other posters error, or just stay reticent and watch - instead of claiming people are posting "BS" (unless you mean Basic Stamp, which is FAR from bull doo doo).
As you judge this thread to contain horsepucky, I assume you are·mathematically inclined enuogh to pass such judgement on your fellow posters --- so, please,·specifically·where in this thread IS the BS to be found?· I'm sure we can correct any errant information - or rein in over exuberance. (then again, why should we throw wet blankets on people's enthusiasm?)
cheers,
Howard
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It certainly wasn't my intent to post any "BS" (as implied by your post). I tried to argue to the best of my ability. I'm certainly no mathematician, but I like to think that my LMGTFY skills are good enough to make a coherent argument.
(As Curly of the Three Stooges would say here: nnyuckk nnyuck nnyuck ! )
@vaclav:
might I suggest you visit here:
http://www.shopknuckleheads.com/join_now.asp?refer=30
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Post Edited (CounterRotatingProps) : 8/13/2009 8:15:18 PM GMT
I get lucky once every 3 years. I'm playing the PowerBall this weekend, whats $5 bucks?
Thanks Again WBA
I like Your weather board, How can I get one without having to jump through hoops????? Actually I would like two. I don't mind paying for some worthwhile hardware!
I'd rather not go through E-Bay
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The Truth is out there············································ BoogerWoods, FL. USA
AKA CounterRotatingCrops.
It must be some good sticky code!!!!! I'd say 420 lines long.
___________$WMc%_____________
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The Truth is out there············································ BoogerWoods, FL. USA