slightly OT - Eagle help please (problem almost solved)

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 03:33

Hi,

I freely admit that I am a newbie at Eagle - I taught myself to use it without printed docs while designing Morpheus. I gave up on the autorouter early, all my boards are manually routed.

The only way I know of moving the part outline from the top of the board to the bottom involves using the "Mirror" function, which can be invoked several ways, but I primarily use pressing the middle mouse button.

The problem: It flips the pins!!!!

I want to push the tPlace and maybe tName layers to bPlace and bName for resistors and caps, without it crossing the traces.

HELP!

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www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Post Edited (Bill Henning) : 7/11/2009 7:40:41 PM GMT

mynet43 · 2009-07-11 19:21

Hi Bill,

Here's my totally biased opinion. I know there are many people here that like Eagle.

I fought with Eagle for a long time, even made a few two sided boards. It was always a pain, since Eagle is not intuitive.

I finally discovered DipTrace, which has a free version. It's totally intuitive, does everything I want and is very easy to use. Outputs standard Gerber files useable by any fab house.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Jim

jazzed · 2009-07-11 19:26

@Bill, the "Mirror" function flipping the pins is so that parts can be placed on the bottom of the board. Hope you find some solution to your quandary.

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--Steve

Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 19:32

Hi Jim,

I'll check it out.

Thanks.

mynet43 said...
Hi Bill,

Here's my totally biased opinion. I know there are many people here that like Eagle.

I fought with Eagle for a long time, even made a few two sided boards. It was always a pain, since Eagle is not intuitive.

I finally discovered DipTrace, which has a free version. It's totally intuitive, does everything I want and is very easy to use. Outputs standard Gerber files useable by any fab house.

Just my 2-cents worth.

Jim

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 19:33

I know... but it would be such a pain to re-flip the pins!

Hmm... wait... mirror then rotate 180 degrees might work! I'll try that.

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

spoke too soon.

It decided to change the layers of some of the traces attached to the part. Argh!

jazzed said...
@Bill, the "Mirror" function flipping the pins is so that parts can be placed on the bottom of the board. Hope you find some solution to your quandary.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Post Edited (Bill Henning) : 7/11/2009 7:41:32 PM GMT

Nick Mueller · 2009-07-11 20:03

> I know... but it would be such a pain to re-flip the pins!

It's not such a big wonder that the pins are "flipped". It's only a problem of your POV.
If the parts gets on the bottom-side, it *has* to be rotated. And chances are 50% that it rotates in the "wrong" way. So mirror and then rotate to your desires.

Re the autorouter:
Forget it. There's a doubt that any autorouter can make a good layout. You have to do that manually. Sometimes, the autorouter can help to find a single better trace. The key to success is a good placement and then a manual route.
I know professionals that use EAGLE and they would have to money to spend for something "better". But they stay wih EAGLE.

Nick

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mynet43 · 2009-07-11 20:15

Hi Bill,

With DipTrace, you just right-click on the part and say "change side." You're done.

Same for rotate, etc.

Jim

Ale · 2009-07-11 20:26

Bill: Yeah, send the part to the other layer and rotate is the way to go. Eagle is sadly quite difficult to learn especially if you have used any other software before. I'm now fairly proficient with it but took me the better part of a year to learn it. (Look at my pPropQL boards for an example, hand routed in less than a week working few hours a day)
I wish it had single letter commands (like autotrax!) and a better highlighter, and being faster on OSX: it is incredibly slow (the newer 5.x versions are slightly faster than the 4.16 PPC on Intel hardware!)

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Visit the home of pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU

T Chap · 2009-07-11 21:01

Bill. Can I ask why you want to do this? Maybe I have other ideas for you to try.

jazzed · 2009-07-11 21:04

Ale said...
... I wish it had single letter commands (like autotrax!) and a better highlighter ...

Don't know about autotrax, but you can "assign" keys in Eagle. I use Ctrl-M for move Ctrl-G for group for example.
Ya, the highlighter sucks for unconnected wires in some cases ... 99% routed huh??? [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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--Steve

Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 22:17

I totally agree for any significant parts... but its flipping resistors! I guess I can't blame it for not knowing its a passive part, and thru-hole at that.

Again, totally agreed on auto routing. Works great for trivial circuits (a couple of transistors + passives) good luck on any complicated boards.

Nick Mueller said...
> I know... but it would be such a pain to re-flip the pins!

It's not such a big wonder that the pins are "flipped". It's only a problem of your POV.
If the parts gets on the bottom-side, it *has* to be rotated. And chances are 50% that it rotates in the "wrong" way. So mirror and then rotate to your desires.

Re the autorouter:
Forget it. There's a doubt that any autorouter can make a good layout. You have to do that manually. Sometimes, the autorouter can help to find a single better trace. The key to success is a good placement and then a manual route.
I know professionals that use EAGLE and they would have to money to spend for something "better". But they stay wih EAGLE.

Nick

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 22:18

Thx... I do have to check it out...

mynet43 said...
Hi Bill,

With DipTrace, you just right-click on the part and say "change side." You're done.

Same for rotate, etc.

Jim

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

Bill Henning · 2009-07-11 22:20

I will be getting another run of Morpheus boards in a couple of months (once current stock runs out - I have a 2-3 week lead time and I don't want to be out of stock long) and I want to move the resistor and ceramic cap silk screening to the back.

TChapman said...
Bill. Can I ask why you want to do this? Maybe I have other ideas for you to try.

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
www.mikronauts.com - my site 6.250MHz custom Crystals for running Propellers at 100MHz
Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
Morpheus & Mem+ Advanced dual Propeller SBC with XMM and 256 Color VGA
Please use mikronauts _at_ gmail _dot_ com to contact me off-forum, my PM is almost totally full

T Chap · 2009-07-11 22:48

Try selecting only the layers you want to move to the rear. Click ULP and find 'Panelize', execute it. This copies whatever was selected onto a brand new layer at the bottom of the list of layers (default color is yellow, double click the layer to change the color if needed). When making your silk layers, no longer use the layers that were used to copy to the new layer.

Then, when you select the silk layers for the bottom to use, choose the newly created layers. You can mirror the parts on the new layers if you want. The new layer has no more association with the part, it is just detached graphics.

If you haven't already noticed, if you are making the board into panels, each time you copy and paste the board into the panel, the names get incremented up with a number at the end which may be a headache. Don't use tNames on your silk in that case, always copy (ULP panelize) your final tName layer to the new layer, select the new layer for them to make silk from, and the names do not get incremented with numbers.

Post Edited (TChapman) : 7/12/2009 3:08:52 AM GMT

Ale · 2009-07-12 05:35

TChapman: That's an interesting method. I have only used copy/paste all to a new board. It does not corrupt names.

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Visit the home of pPropQL: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
pPropQL020: propeller.wikispaces.com/pPropQL
OMU for the pPropQL/020 propeller.wikispaces.com/OMU

T Chap · 2009-07-12 18:42

Ale, copy and paste to a new board does not increment name numbers as you say, but copy and paste to the same board (ie making multiples of the same board for pcb fab) does increment the name with a number, even if the original name did not contain a number. In Eagle, you cannot have a part on a board with the same exact name, so copying and pasting to the same board increments this. This is a big headache later when you are adding parts, and the schematic calls for an 0603 10K res on the part name "R1". R1 will only exist on one of the boards from that panel that got cut up, all others will be higher numbers. The ULP Panelize is to fix this issue so that the names stay the same on all parts. But Panelize can be used for many other needs where you want to dump some graphics. The thing to remember is, do the Panelize last, as moving or renaming a part does not affect the panelized layer after the fact.

Chris Savage · 2009-07-13 16:23

Moving from the Propeller Forum to the Sandbox.

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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering

slightly OT - Eagle help please (problem almost solved)

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