Newbie question: Should I get into using the Propeller Chip?
Airbrusha
Posts: 5
I'm very new to programing chips. So new that I'm not sure what is sutible for my needs. I have a basic stamp 2 that I used for a class on microcontrollers in school. What I want to do is make·hand held games that would simply hold a trivia type of game in it for a learning environment. It would have to be low cost and would only need to sense 3 buttons and interface with a simple LCD. I am only leaning toward the propeller because of it's lower cost than the stamp. Someone please put me on the right path.
Comments
If so, the trivia game would be an excellent project for the prop. That kind of thing is well within the scope of what a Propeller can do. And you can do it with SPIN, which is nice in that it's a high level language like the Stamp Basic is, but it runs considerably faster.
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
My propmod-us_ps_sd would be a nice option for you. Has built in uSD card reader, and built in buck/boost power supply that is over 90% efficient which is a good thing if running off batteries.
Spin Studio from ucontroler.com is another very good platform to learn on. They have modules for just about anything you would want.
Hope you enjoy the prop.
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
http://www.rayslogic.com/Propeller/Products/Products.htm
I just sold my entire inventory at the Expo!· (Ok, so my "inventory" was only 13 units [noparse]:)[/noparse]· But, I should have more in a week or two...
It has a "TV_Text" mode that is very simple to use....
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
There are various memory expansion options for devices in development. No external SRAM solution will give you the access speed available with on-chip memory. Different solutions require different approaches and board sizes. The fastest solutions available today (20MB/s?) in mostly "developer" prototype or some pre-production form will require 2 Propellers because of the number of pins required (28 pins or more?). I'm developing a small 1 Propeller solution SRAM 512KB module (0.9x2.1" about DIP40 size) 1MB with 2 modules that needs 16 Propeller pins, but will only allow 5.3MB/s maximum access rates for long bursts (16 longs at 4 bytes/long). Adding external hardware will increase cost.
Learning the Propeller Spin language may be a challenge for someone who doesn't know any programming language at all. But it will be no harder than learning BASIC from a program step by step perspective. There is more to learn in Spin than with BASIC because Spin allows much, much more ability. Propeller can cost less than BASIC stamp modules, but it will likely be a longer learning path for a totally new programmer. The wonderful people in this forum can help a lot, but even the most helpful have limits.
Best of luck with whatever you do!
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Also, I checked out ucontroler.com and looked at the spin studio. I see that it is free for only 30 days. I guess I should rephase my question: How do you edit spin if you don't buy the program, and is there a free one out there? Can you use any of these without the chip in hand on a board? I only ask this since my brother-in-law will probably do the programing on this first, but has no hardware know-how. He is on the other side of the country and might be a bit hard if I have to put it together and then he has to program it.
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
Even though spin's pretty easy (and C's not as scary as localroger makes it sound ;-P) it still has some quirks that aren't in other languages. But it's still a very good place to start.
The interface to 3 buttons will be very simple no matter what MC you pick ... just make sure you 'debounce' the buttons. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Welcome to the forums, BTW !
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And I'm not going to start the C thing again. Really. I promise. Not. Going. To MUST LOG OFF SEE YOU LATER
LOLOL
Chicken !
Just kidding ;-P
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I remember programing in perl and feeling every uncomfortable using any low level technique since I wouldn't know what the result would be.
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Nyamekye,
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
C string handling is crappy because C doesn't handle strings at all; they're not part of the language. They're part of a "library" of bolt-on functions. And while there are some pretty good string libraries C can use, the default library everyone is taught on is a piece of Smile. This is because...
1. Strings are null-terminated, which means they can't contain the ASCII value zero and you have to scan them to figure out their length. Spin shares this weakness.
2. String copies and appends are not length checked against the buffers into which you are stuffing them, so that it is trivially easy to overwrite important areas of memory because you tried to copy a 32 byte string into a 16 byte buffer. This flaw is the cause of at least half of the hacker exploits that make it possible for hostile software to take over your computer and turn it into someone else's robot. It doesn't help that the string buffer is usually on the stack because of the way C handles local variables, making it possible for an attacker to predictably insert code into a place he knows it will get run.
The good C string libraries are rare enough that you really can't count on having access to any of them on any particular platform or project, so everyone uses the crappy ones by default.
It's also true that even the good C string libraries generally treat strings as an array of bytes and use weird syntax to bridge the gap between byte arrays and character strigns. While Spin shares some annoying characteristics of this (if strcomp(@buffer,string("WHATSTHIS") vs. if buffer="WHATSTHIS") Spin at least absolves itself somewhat by letting you use quoted strings as numerical constants.
DAMN I WENT THERE WHERE THE HELL IS THE LISTERINE
2. The functions snprintf, strncmp, strncat, etc... are available to ensure buffers don't overflow ... but you have to use them [noparse]:)[/noparse] It is somewhat awkward to pass the maximum length to fgets or other buffer based functions.
As an analogy, I smoked for 20 years (quit January 2000). When you're used to the bad taste or smelly clothes it doesn't matter except to other people. So perhaps I just need to learn a totally different way to program to really appreciate the differences.
Of course none of this tangent is helping the initial thread poster [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Post Edited (jazzed) : 6/30/2009 3:56:41 AM GMT
So SPIN is even more crappier, because the string-libs are less complete than the ones from C?
And if someone teaches you the wrong libs, or you are too lazy to have a own look at libs, the language is crappy?
And accessing outside of any array is impossible in SPIN? It's even easier, because SPIN lacks elements that make it easy to write robust code (assert, defines, ...).
That all doesn't make any sense!
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
Back in the day, Intel thoughtfully provided hardware bound checking support in the 8088, so you could set up a couple of registers and bound-check your memory range accesses with almost no speed penalty. IBM helpfully used the interrupt for the PRINT SCREEN key so that nobody ever used the CPU feature, because your interrupt hook had to figure out whether it was being called for a boundary overrun or a print screen request.
With the difference, that C has evolved over decades (unfair, I know). C99 is quite different to the K&R C you seem to remember. You still can easily make nonsense. But decent compilers set to the highest warning level, save and modern libs (not the one you named above) and save coding techniques, it is a solid language. Get LINT and learn from it.
It's all a question of discipline, and C makes that quite easy (contrary to SPIN).
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO