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Battery Backup for the Propeller — Parallax Forums

Battery Backup for the Propeller

william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
edited 2009-06-18 01:21 in Propeller 1
Hi,

How do I connect 2 AA rechargeable alkaline batteries in such a way that
the batteries would automatically take over and supply power to the Propeller when there is a power failure?

How do I charge the batteries when power supply is restored?

Thanks.

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Comments

  • Robot FreakRobot Freak Posts: 168
    edited 2009-06-17 08:46
    Just to encourage somebody to reply: I'd like to know too!
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,838
    edited 2009-06-17 09:11
    I think most rechargable AA are NiMH these days...

    I have a "Accessory Board" for my PSM module that does what you describe. But, recharging the right way takes a lot of circuitry. I've used a circuit very much like that of the STM32 Circle. You can find those circuit diagrams on the web. It trickle charges the batteries in a way that is very slow (maybe 20-40 hours to fully charge) and does not maximize battery life.

    Basically, you use 3 Shottky diodes. One goes from supply to battery, one from supply to output, and one from battery to output...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2009-06-17 10:05
    How about in the case where the required battery charging voltage is higher than the supply voltage.

    For example, the supply voltage is 12v but a sealed lead acid battery needs to be float charged at 13.5v
    In such a case, where the battery voltage is higher than the output voltage, how do we implement the auto takeover when power failure occurs?

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    www.fd.com.my
    www.mercedes.com.my
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,838
    edited 2009-06-17 10:09
    Well, I think the same idea would work because the battery charge voltage would need to be > than the lead-acid battery voltage... But, you'd need some bigger Schottky diodes for the presumably higher currents...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2009-06-17 12:10
    What I meant was that the supplied voltage is regulated to exactly 12v.
    But I need to float the lead acid battery at 13.5v How do I do that?

    The output is also 12v, but it would be a problem b'cos the battery could start to supply current to the output
    in normal operation b'cos it's voltage is higher!

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    www.fd.com.my
    www.mercedes.com.my
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-06-17 12:23
    william chan said...
    What I meant was that the supplied voltage is regulated to exactly 12v.
    But I need to float the lead acid battery at 13.5v How do I do that?

    Use a 13.5V supply (Or 14.1V - 13.5V + One Diode drop). Job done.

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,838
    edited 2009-06-17 22:46
    Actually, now that I think about it... For 12-V lead-acid batteries, I just leave the trickle charger on the battery all the time and take the power from the battery connections directly...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
  • RvnPhnxRvnPhnx Posts: 36
    edited 2009-06-18 00:10
    In the ham radio world there is a product by the name of "Super PWRgate" (http://www.westmountainradio.com/SuperPWRgate.htm) which does what Rayman mentioned at 2:11AM.

    It does not, however require "a lot of circuitry"--usually just a few external components. Take a look at the LTC1325 if you want something that you can use with NiMH batteries and hook up to a microcontroller with 3 or 4 wire SPI.

    As far as a backup supply providing "exactly 12V"--that just isn't possible if you intend to draw directly off of the backup battery. When specifying a battery-based supply you must always remember that "rated voltage" is not the same thing as "actual voltage"--ever. All batteries have a discharge curve, and all batteries follow a predictable swing of voltage through each charge/discharge cycle.

    I'd follow the paradigm used by laptop manufacturers: bulk supply feeding redundant power element feeding final regulation. It sure seems to work for them.

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    --RvnPhnx
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2009-06-18 00:48
    Rayman said...
    Actually, now that I think about it... For 12-V lead-acid batteries, I just leave the trickle charger on the battery all the time and take the power from the battery connections directly...

    If you do that, then the battery will get depleted very soon because the charging current is much less than the output current.
    If you increase the (trickle) charging current, the battery may be badly overcharged when the output takes too little current.
    So, how now?

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    www.fd.com.my
    www.mercedes.com.my
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-06-18 00:52
    william chan said...
    Rayman said...
    Actually, now that I think about it... For 12-V lead-acid batteries, I just leave the trickle charger on the battery all the time and take the power from the battery connections directly...

    If you do that, then the battery will get depleted very soon because the charging current is much less than the output current.
    If you increase the (trickle) charging current, the battery may be badly overcharged when the output takes too little current.
    So, how now?

    You float charge a lead acid battery with a constant voltage charge, not a constant current. Put 13.8V at the battery terminals and use that to power your devices.

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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-06-18 00:55
    I'm new to propeller but can it's brown out detector catch the lowering V and then switch to the battery for a while, then rinse and repeat until it finds the power back on?

    Or use a cog to keep track of V and do the switch over?
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-06-18 01:02
    HollyMinkowski said...
    I'm new to propeller but can it's brown out detector catch the lowering V and then switch to the battery for a while, then rinse and repeat until it finds the power back on?

    No. All the brown out detector can do for you is hold the chip in reset until it no longer detects a brown out.
    HollyMinkowski said...

    Or use a cog to keep track of V and do the switch over?

    Sounds overly complex to me. This form of battery backup is in every type of alarm panel out there, plus my 5 dollar alarm clock. It's seriously not hard to do.

    As for charging nimh batteries, you can safely float charge them (according to duracell anyway) at C/30 - C/50 from now until eternity. Why not use three nimh batteries and float charge them using a simple constant current source with diodes to separate them from the propeller and the PSU. If you want to get really complex, monitor the battery voltage and have the propeller switch a C/5 load on the batteries from time to time to ensure they are not going soft (A resistor and logic level MOSFET will do that). That way your propeller can notify you if the batteries need replacing when it does a battery test.

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,838
    edited 2009-06-18 01:21
    Three cells is better if you have the room and don't mind odd numbers (you can't buy a 3-pack!)...

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    My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
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