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BOOST Propeller Chip? — Parallax Forums

BOOST Propeller Chip?

HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
edited 2009-06-21 21:05 in Propeller 1
How can I boost the Propeller chip to 200 Teraflops (200 trillion calculations per second)?

humanoido
«1

Comments

  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-06-16 03:41
    The best you can do is to cool it to -55C, run it at +3.6V Vdd. You may be able to run it with a 140MHz system clock according to the datasheet (and the testing that went into it). Each cog will do 35 x 10^6 instructions per second. With 8 cogs, you'll get an aggregate 280 x 10^6 or 0.28 x 10^9 instructions per second (0.28 Teraflops).
  • RossHRossH Posts: 5,512
    edited 2009-06-16 03:51
    C'mon Mike, don't stop now!

    ... and then you just get 715 of them, and then ...

    Ross.

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-06-16 03:57
    humanoido said...
    How can I boost the Propeller chip to 200 Teraflops (200 trillion calculations per second)?

    humanoido

    While you are there, how can I make my 1982 Volvo do 300 MPH ?

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    Eccles : I haven't got a knob on my side!
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-06-16 03:59
    Ross,
    He did ask about boosting "the Propeller chip", not "Propeller chips". It would certainly be easy enough to create a 10 x 10 x 10 cube, particularly if you use SMT parts instead of PDIP packaging. It would also be fairly straightforward to substitute Spin Stamps for the Basic Stamps in the Basic Stamp Supercomputer. You wouldn't get quite the same throughput, but 10 to 12 Spin Stamps would get you through the Teraflop barrier.
  • mparkmpark Posts: 1,305
    edited 2009-06-16 04:28
    Aren't flops floating-point ops?
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-06-16 04:30
    BradC said...


    While you are there, how can I make my 1982 Volvo do 300 MPH ?

    Drop it from an airplane. smile.gif
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-16 04:36
    nope. will not reach 300MPH. terminal valocity is way below that.

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  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-06-16 04:37
    mctrivia said...
    nope. will not reach 300MPH. terminal valocity is way below that.

    Duh - you've gotta take your foot off the brake!


    nono.gif
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-16 04:54
    I computed with propgalore boards i could get 16384 cogs in a 7"x7"x7" cube all running lock steped together.

    at 80MHz you get 327.7 GIPs
    at 140Mhz you get 573.4 GIPs

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  • simonlsimonl Posts: 866
    edited 2009-06-16 19:36
    ElectricAye said...
    mctrivia said...
    nope. will not reach 300MPH. terminal valocity is way below that.

    Duh - you've gotta take your foot off the brake!


    nono.gif
    lol.gif Thank you - I've not laughed so much in ages lol.gif

    @humanoido: Looks like you're gonna make a PSS then? I've wired-up 6 prop's, but haven't got around to coding yet shakehead.gif

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    Cheers,
    Simon

    www.norfolkhelicopterclub.com

    “Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way when you criticize them, you are a mile away from them and you have their shoes.” - Jack Handey.
  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,839
    edited 2009-06-16 20:34
    Yes, flops are floating-point ops per second, substantially less than IPS (instructions per second) with the Prop!
    mpark said...
    Aren't flops floating-point ops?
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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-06-16 21:44
    A more realistic goal would be to emulate the performance of some of the early supercomputers
    using the propeller.

    I looked up the Cray1 and it was a 64bit 160MIPS system capable of about 100 MFLOPS.
    The Cray1 would be easily matched by a propeller system and it was worth 5 - 8 million
    in mid 70s dollars.

    A multi-chip propeller system could probably reach a few billion floating point operations/sec.

    But it would be cheaper and easier to use several overclocked quad core motherboards running Linux
    to achieve high performance smile.gif
  • stevenmess2004stevenmess2004 Posts: 1,102
    edited 2009-06-17 07:18
    HollyMinkowski said...
    A more realistic goal would be to emulate the performance of some of the early supercomputers
    using the propeller.

    I looked up the Cray1 and it was a 64bit 160MIPS system capable of about 100 MFLOPS.
    The Cray1 would be easily matched by a propeller system and it was worth 5 - 8 million
    in mid 70s dollars.

    A multi-chip propeller system could probably reach a few billion floating point operations/sec.

    But it would be cheaper and easier to use several overclocked quad core motherboards running Linux
    to achieve high performance smile.gif

    Using the assembly floating point routines the time for a floating point add is 4.7us and for for a multiply 10.5us. If we take the average of those two we end up with 7.6us which ends up to be about 130,000 flops. Times this by 8 cogs and you get about 1 MFLOP. So, to get to the 100 MFLOPS you are going to need about a 100 props and then you will still only be working with 32 bit numbers and not 64 bit numbers. Like you say it would be a much better idea would be to just get any modern pc including a netbook. That should be able to do it easily.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-06-17 14:47
    ElectricAye said...
    mctrivia said...
    nope. will not reach 300MPH. terminal valocity is way below that.

    Duh - you've gotta take your foot off the brake!


    I'm gone to Norwalk for a day and I miss this! ROFLOL!
    {BTW: It's time to sign up for UPENE, gang!}

    OBC

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  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2009-06-17 16:36
    Mike Green said...
    It would also be fairly straightforward to substitute Spin Stamps for the Basic Stamps in the Basic Stamp Supercomputer. You wouldn't get quite the same throughput, but 10 to 12 Spin Stamps would get you through the Teraflop barrier.
    attachment.php?attachmentid=61642

    The single Propeller specification is 160Mips. Can you please explain how ten (or 12) Spin Stamps can get into the Teraflop range? Thanks.

    humanoido

    Post Edited (humanoido) : 6/18/2009 11:09:03 AM GMT
    152 x 182 - 28K
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-06-17 16:46
    Oooops. In my haste to sound optimistic, I got my powers of 10 wrong. You're correct, it's 2 Gigaflops (if you count integer arithmetic as a flop), not 2 Teraflops. A 10 x 10 x 10 cube would give you 1/5 of a Teraflop (if you count instructions per second).
  • HumanoidoHumanoido Posts: 5,770
    edited 2009-06-18 03:38
    That's ok, I actually liked the more optimistic reply better. Thank you for the ideas. This thread is filled with good ideas. I have seen SMT chips and the pins are so tiny, it's unlikely I could solder those to a board, and certainly not on the order of 1,000. When I go with this project, how can soldering be accomplished? Thanks.

    humanoido
  • Mike GreenMike Green Posts: 23,101
    edited 2009-06-18 04:07
    SparkFun has a "course" on SMT soldering. It takes practice and experience. I've not done much myself ... old eyes and no depth perception.
    For something on the order of a stack of boards, you should probably use a temperature controlled oven to do a whole board at a time once you've placed the parts in position. SparkFun has a description of how to make one from a toaster oven. I think Beau posted a project once upon a time for a Stamp controlled oven.
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-18 04:27
    I use a toaster oven. My propmodule pcb are a good practice system.

    Other option pay someone.


    For first 4 orders buy 10 pcb get another 10 free. Put offer code 42f in checkout notes.

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    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-06-18 04:43
    Get a hot air rework station and a set of nozzles for it.
    You can get a nice one really cheap direct from China (Ebay)

    The hot air makes it easy to remove and solder sm chips.
    Makes it easy to pull the part back off, clean up, and try again

    I find a USB camera to be useful for giving a magnified view of
    a circuit board. One of the rework stations at work has a microscope
    on it.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-06-18 04:55
    I really like working with a hot air station for the (very few) SMD soldering that I've done. There's also a member on these forums (name is something like "Lil' Bro's ...") that will assemble small runs of SMD boards. I understand that they're very reasonable.
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-18 04:58
    yes James Long is very reasonably priced.

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    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • James LongJames Long Posts: 1,181
    edited 2009-06-18 05:17
    SRLM said...
    I really like working with a hot air station for the (very few) SMD soldering that I've done. There's also a member on these forums (name is something like "Lil' Bro's ...") that will assemble small runs of SMD boards. I understand that they're very reasonable.

    Yes we are around......haven't been on the forum much lately....had our main company server go down....and still working to get it back to 100%.

    If you want a quote....just email me from the forum (email is accessible here), and we can quote the job. There is a lot of information required to get a quote....but we try to make it as painless as possible.

    James L

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    Partner/Designer

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    Please note: Due to economic conditions the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off until further notice. Thanks for your understanding.
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-06-18 07:05
    Now if I could just add this to my matchbox sized YottaByte disk drive now (instead of the future) smile.gif

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  • Chris MicroChris Micro Posts: 160
    edited 2009-06-18 17:54
    >I computed with propgalore boards i could get 16384 cogs in a 7"x7"x7" cube all running lock steped together.

    If one propeller has a power dissipation of 1 Watt you would have a total of 16KW.

    How do you want to cool it? Do you need it as central heating?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-18 18:05
    At max draw it would be only 2kW

    I find though prop normally runs much less more like 8mW/cog. So more like 150W. By the way new computer power supplies now sell in the 1.5kW range. Cooling would not be to bad good fan will do.

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    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • CounterRotatingPropsCounterRotatingProps Posts: 1,132
    edited 2009-06-18 20:46
    > how can I make my 1982 Volvo do 300 MPH ?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YVSXRETml4
    ( Yeah, I know I posted that before, but it just seemed too appropriate :-P )

    zettaFLOPS 1021

    yottaFLOPS 1024

    wholeLottaFLOPS 10210

    Seriously though Humanoido, like Holly suggested, why not use a more appropriate platform? Several Nvidia GPUs put together can do some heavy number crunching, like this:

    http://www.dvhardware.net/article27538.html

    @Holly, Mike Green, SRLM, mctrivia - thanks for the tips on hot-air work. I've been looking into this for the first time. Mike, I'm like you, I've been shying away from them because of eyesight. Holly, your idea of a web-cam microscope has just bubbled to the TOP of my project to-do list - thx!· If I started a 'hot-air re/work' thread in the sandbox, would you all jump in a bit?

    cheers

    - Howard

    ·

    ·

    ·

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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-06-18 23:02
    @CounterRotatingProps

    There is an Ebay seller named Mary Li Wang in Guangdong China that sells a basic hot air station for 118.00 delivered.
    She has a 100% seller rating.
    stores.shop.ebay.com/TheBestLuckCorner__W0QQ_armrsZ1
    bigpicturexxWUTIP.jpg

    You can buy extra iron tips and nozzles that will ship free at the same time as the station... $8 each.

    She even has a BGA rework station with scope for just $400
  • CounterRotatingPropsCounterRotatingProps Posts: 1,132
    edited 2009-06-18 23:45
    Great Holly, thanks!

    I've copied that over to the Sandbox where I've started a new topic, called "The Hot-Air (re)Work & SMD Soldering Thread " [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=360823

    If you know about hot-air rework, or SMD techniques, PLEASE drop in and contribute to that thread!

    thanks,
    - Howard

    [noparse]/noparse][noparse][[/noparse] after this short thread interruption ... we now return you to your regularly scheduled thread topic

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  • CounterRotatingPropsCounterRotatingProps Posts: 1,132
    edited 2009-06-21 19:25
    Mike Green said...
    ....·SparkFun has a description of how to make one from a toaster oven. I think Beau posted a project once upon a time for a Stamp controlled oven.
    Hi Mike, I've done some extensive searches, and Beau doesn't recall this. Do you happen to remember possible key words for a better search?· (for SMD techniques mentioned above.)

    thanks
    - Howard

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