Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzAP!!! — Parallax Forums

ZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzAP!!!

CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
edited 2009-06-15 00:13 in General Discussion
We've all had a go of those toys that give you an electric zap when you aren't fast enough to push the button or what not. Anyone here know of a good way to build something like that? Safe, but shocking? Like the toys. Preferably with two settings. One for wimp and one for tough guy?

▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?

Comments

  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-12 04:34
    I know lots of ways to generate super high voltages most are not safe at all line a marx generator capable of generating mega volts at kilo amps.

    Some toys use a springloaded hammer to hit a crystal

    Vandegraph generators can give you a safe 10kV but are physically large.

    High frequency squarewave through a 1000:1 transformer is pretty safe if using 5v input

    ...

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-06-12 05:26
    As a kid I was always mesmerized by my father's use of the phrase "killer watts".
    My nephew used old worn-out cigarette lighters (no flint) to make a shock box.
    Next time I see him I'll get it out of his head and on paper for you.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-12 05:27
    Awesome! Though I'd like to be able to link the circuit to be triggered by a micro if possible...

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-12 05:34
    Those lighters use a crystal like I mentioned.

    A solinoid could do the same but yourbest bet use a transistor to drive a hand wound transformer.

    I have schematics for painfield generators and other stuff. Will post some Tuesday.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-06-12 05:39
    You can buy toys online and hack them. Here's some: list
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-12 05:40
    I'd rather not hack something else but build it myself. Personal preference. Makes me learn wink.gif

    Thanks, mctrivia. I'll keep an eye out on Tuesday!

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2009-06-12 06:53
    CumQuaT,

    For something quick and dirty, setup a relay as an oscillator without a back-emf diode across the coil.
    A little bit of trial and error and you'll know where not to touch. smilewinkgrin.gif

    If you want something that's more solid state, you can check out my patent ... US 6,500,210 ... with a schematic on page #5

    The patent is more for the prosthetic application more than the actual circuit. The basic idea is pretty simple... you charge a capacitor, in this case through a 100 Ohm resistor. The NPN transistor is part of the auto-turn on circuit and can be omitted. The 470 Ohm and the 100 Ohm resistor form a voltage divider to the gate of an SCR. When the capacitor reaches a certain voltage determined by the voltage divider and turn-on threshold voltage level of the SCR, the SCR turns on rapidly dumping the capacitor charge into the primary coil of a small transformer. When the capacitor discharges, the SCR resets, and the process happens all over again.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.

    Post Edited (Beau Schwabe (Parallax)) : 6/12/2009 7:28:56 AM GMT
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-12 09:40
    Awesome info! Thanks!

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-06-12 11:44
    Beau Schwabe (Parallax) said...
    CumQuaT,

    For something quick and dirty, setup a relay as an oscillator without a back-emf diode across the coil.
    A little bit of trial and error and you'll know where not to touch. smilewinkgrin.gif

    I was about to suggest precisely that until I scrolled down to your post. We ruined a fair few relays as kids using the kick of the back emf as a shock buzzer. Ahh.. kids don't have good clean fun like that anymore. Anything fun is illegal.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Eccles : How do I open the door?
    Bluebottle : You turn the knob on your side
    Eccles : I haven't got a knob on my side!
  • mikedivmikediv Posts: 825
    edited 2009-06-12 15:20
    Hey guys can anyone show a diagram of the "For something quick and dirty, setup a relay as an oscillator without a back-emf diode across the coil.
    A little bit of trial and error and you'll know where not to touch???

    I just can't picture this I took a 12 volt relay and tried putting an oscillating output to where the relay coil connects to energize the relay but nothing???? it only made the relay buzz?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-12 15:56
    May need relay that draws more current. More current the higher the reverse voltage induced when turned off.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • stamptrolstamptrol Posts: 1,731
    edited 2009-06-12 17:39
    At the risk of sounding like an old fart, I'd suggest a better use for your talents than finding ways to generate devices to purposely electrically shock people. Most familiar with the medical aspects of heart and/or brain control will confirm that the line between harmless and lethal is extremely thin and blurry. Many of us who work with serious voltage and power levels find it annoying that someone gets their jollies by shocking someone else for laughs.

    Just look at the court cases coming out of the "harmless" use of conductive energy devices in law enforcement and the numerous folks who are now dead after its harmless application.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Tom Sisk

    http://www.siskconsult.com
    ·
  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2009-06-12 17:54
    I agree with stamptrol where caution and a little common sense does need to be exercised here, however the circuit that I was describing is nothing more than an electro-mechanical buzzer and is/was usually one of the projects you could build that was included in the 50/150/200/300 in One electronic project kits you could buy at Radio Shack years ago.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.
    RLY Buzzer.JPG
    371 x 647 - 45K
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-13 12:06
    Stamptrol, please be aware that I am most definitely not looking to make a taser here. I simply want to replicate the effect of many common practical joke toys that deliver a small zap (even less than a static zap from touching your car) to the person in contact with the filaments.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • UghaUgha Posts: 543
    edited 2009-06-14 11:36
    I don't want to sound lame or say something that's pretty much common sense... but...

    You need to ensure as close as you can that it will be impossible for the charge to travel through the brain or heart. An otherwise healthy person
    can receive a fairly mild charge (something around a static shock) and have heart problems as a result.

    The biggest risk for toys like that is someone touching the contacts with one on hand each. This forces the current to travel a path through the heart.

    Make sure your physical design of the contacts discourages this (make them extremely close together and hard to get to).
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-14 15:24
    If building shocking devices there are several things you must do.

    1 do not sell yourself. Incorporate or have someone else buy rights
    2 have warning labels galore.
    3 make sure it is impossible to get 507ma or more through heart

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-14 23:55
    I am fully aware of all this and measures are taken in the design to accomodate. Common sense is something that anyone doing electronics work should adhere to, and I'm no exception.

    Please, I need less people repeating the same safety cautions and more people answering the originally posed question if possible. I appreciate the warnings, but I wouldn't be doing this without having done my research into the effects of electricity on the body. All I need is a little static zap.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-15 00:00
    What are size restrictions

    Vandigraph generator is gauanted safe and easy to build but not small.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-15 00:01
    Well, it doesn't have to be TINY as such... Perhaps something easily carryable? No more than 500g though if possible. I suppose I could go up to a KG...

    Some of those toys out there are pretty small though. I've seen laser tag systems that give you a shock if you get shot that fit inside a pistol...

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-06-15 00:12
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=ms-rim&channel=browser&ie=UTF-8&ei=v5A1Sp6AHZ-yML7F3JgK&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=vandergraph+generator&spell=1

    Even if not for this very fun

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are now in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • CumQuaTCumQuaT Posts: 156
    edited 2009-06-15 00:13
    hahaha fun sounds good. I'll give it a go! I saw a project to build one of these in one of the more recent editions of MAKE: Magazine.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Who are you, and why are you reading my signature?
Sign In or Register to comment.