Propeller Platform (PCB layout), Nuts and Volts May 2009 page 70
yarisboy
Posts: 245
I see Mr. Jon Williams beat me to press with a nifty Propeller mini-board from Express. Do we have a group buy set up for this board yet. If anyone out there has spent the $60 bucks it takes to buy three of these I'd like to buy one of the left-overs. In larger quantities we would have leverage for pricing.
Comments
This is a nice breakout board for beginners.· Plus, I'm glad to see someone else doing ExpressPCB....
Here's a link to a page with the download on it:
http://www.nutsvolts.com/index.php?/magazine/article/spinning_up_embedded_control_projects
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Post Edited (Rayman) : 6/9/2009 5:25:38 PM GMT
http://i39.tinypic.com/j91120.jpg
They have a nice 2nd socket for an extra eeprom on this board.
I am going to use a 28pin zif on my dev boards when I make them.
There are several of them here and I can wire them up to take
several eeproms as needed.
From the article (I can relate to this!)
"The propellers program is stored in an off-board eeprom. This last point has stuck in the craw of some professional developers. This
is being addressed in the next generation propeller by encoding the eeprom with an encryption key that is burned into the propeller (OTP)
This encoding will look like gibberish to any propeller chip that does not contain the proper key. "
My question is will this be any more secure than the scheme used to protect code in ARM and AVR chips? Because code has certainly
been pulled out of those. And most importantly, will the eeprom be on the silicon with the propeller instead of external in the new design??
Hi Mike
So sad the new propeller will still use external...but if it simply can't be done then there is nothing more to say.
I guess it could be done but that the new chip would cost a bunch more?
A person could be sneaky and use a surface mount eeprom and place it beneath the propeller chip, soldered to the board
and superglued to the propeller so that it would maybe be damaged if you tried to pull off the prop.
Then have a second eeprom mounted nearby (a decoy) filled with buggy code that seems to work but not quite...LoL
It would probably be just as safe as encrypted code on an eeprom since the key would have to be there as well.
I heard of a project that encrypted data that was stored in flash with a randomly generated key.
I gathered that the idea was to keep snoopers out since no key was on the chip. But the only way
I can see that the data could have been decoded was to somehow know the random key that was
generated (that was not possible since they used noise from a diode to generate a truly random key)
Or use a very short key that was then brute forced (seems unlikely because the key length I heard of
seemed way too long) Or use an encryption algorithm that had a known secret weakness (unlikely since
the algo is considered secure?) Or use a supercomputer to brute force the key (seems very wasteful of expensive
computer time) --- I admit this still has me stumped how the data was useful!?
BTW... You seem to be one of the brighter bulbs here on this board
I have solved this problem with the ramtron FM31L278 device in place of usual eeprom. It replaces the eeprom function, add a unique serial number to my products, have a RTC (if you not need it choose the FM32L278 device) and have counters working(counting) also in battery backed mode.
The encryption key is stored as a counter preset value. The counter trigger pins are wired on enclosure switch, photodiode ... and similar, depends on the product. If anyone opens the box, even in absence of power, the counter value increases changing in this way the encryption key: program in fram(eeprom) unreadable! Of course you can upload a new software in propeller ram and with this get the current key and eeprom image: is up to you to prevent this - so easy.
regards
He certainly is - anyone remember this thread ? http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=627297
It was even suggested that a Mike Green Action Figure be created.
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Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
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Watching the world pass me by, one photon at a time.
Before anyone goes through the effort to organize a group buy I have good news: our friend, Ken Gracey, has agreed to make the P/P available as a kit. It might be a one-time deal but it will be a deal. I've also had a conversation with Nick over at Gadget Gangster to make future project boards available as kits. Just to be fair to Nick, however, they have to be financially viable for him to commit to the number of boards that would make the price consumer-friendly. I'm hoping future projects in my column will be interesting enough to warrant kits (I tend to get a lot of email from the column asking to buy my spare boards). I'm also hoping that other experimenters will design plug-in modules (what the Arduino crowd calls "shields") for the Propeller Platform.
I've attached a photo of my P/P that will appear in the July issue and is the basis for the kit that Parallax is building (@Rayman: I'll send you the files if you'd like to post them on your site with the other Propeller boards). BTW, my column is now re-titled: "The Spin Zone - Adventures in Propeller Programming." My goal is to provide sound programming guidance for those, like me, who crave something between the beginner's material that is in abundance and the hardcore stuff provided by gurus like Mike, Phil, Beau, and Chip. I think there's a lot of us in that middle ground.
See you at the expo.
Jon
Sounds like my kind of stuff. Nice looking board! Thanks for putting it together.
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Post Edited (Rayman) : 6/9/2009 5:26:12 PM GMT
My first "demobd" had a small 30 way breadboard but now the Mk2 has one about 3 times the size and has been shoved into a Beta (SP) case with all the conections and regs. This is tough enough for the laptop bag.
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Shawn Lowe
When all else fails.....procrastinate!
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Las - Large model assembler for the Propeller (alpha version this week)
Largos - a feature full nano operating system for the Propeller
www.mikronauts.com - a new blog about microcontrollers
Ever consider SpinStudio as a base? As the kits are already readily available and affordable ($34.99 for the MainBoard, which includes a Propeller and EEPROM, and all the other parts needed to complete it) plus many other peripheral modules already available that are also priced reasonably.
I know you already started your magazine series, and at this point, it'd be too late to say "hey, remember that PCB in the last issue.... well forget about that one...." But I see most of the parts that make up a SpinStudio are on that board, just a different PCB and headers, It'd be really simple for me to kit these as well, and offer them for a price identical to that of the SpinStudio Mainboard.
As far as add-on boards. Most of the peripheral boards for SpinStudio could work with your design. This document ucontroller.com/spinsolderlessmod.pdf explains how. I illustrated plugging in to a Solderless Breadboard, but the same idea could work with your board, the 8 IO pins will plug in to the headers on that board, then an extension wire can plug into 3.3V, 5V and VSS as necessary. Just an idea to easily add peripheral devices until a proper IO shield is designed.(maybe I'll take you up on that challange)
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Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
I didn't because I'm a bit of a control freak over anything that goes into my column, and for specific reasons I wanted my board to be very Arduino-like (small, stackable) while fitting onto ExpressPCB's miniboard size requirement. I pointed out in my first column that there are a lot of good products I haven't personally used and at some future point I will provide a list of companies like yours.
http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/PropPCB/PCB_Boards.htm
How's that for a change of heart?
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
I work for the nations largest University. There are many professors there that can design rings around me. The difference is they don't use their own money. Any individual project is not a destination to impress, but is merely a stepping stone to whatever I can accomplish through continual striving. I sometimes design without doing a lot of research into how its been done in the past. You'd be surprised how entrenched thinking is in both circuit design and software design. AMD whopped Intel a decade ago by bringing in green horns and saying: "This is what the black box must do". When they turned them loose the race was on and, we the consumers, won. Is the competition between the Microchip camp and the Propeller newbies any different? I've done one successful layout. I took a couple of classes in EM theory and RF design way back in the '90s and am seeing the applied theories show up in my more experienced colleges layouts. As I transition from the slow BS2 to the Propeller the low-noise board designs will become even more important. I appreciate the open info environment allowed by these types of forums. Once hiring managers decide you are too old to be an engineer you may have to re-invent wheels on your own. Some times you discover a wheel works poorly but a mobius strip works perfectly. Yes, I had to look up "topology" lately. When I see the word bandied about in a technical paper I always suspect the author is a technical snob and the paper will be long and have a hard time making its point. Ditto for data sheets on chips.
Post Edited (yarisboy) : 6/10/2009 1:25:52 AM GMT
Which leads me to hinv's statement...."but what is so exciting about the Arduino?" When I read about the Propeller I remember thinking "You mean with just a few resistors and a connector I can do Video????" I had to have one.
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Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
I think it may build a bridge to our Arduino friends who think in terms of shields.
I for one welcome new Arduino user traffic as a result.
What I can't figure out is what they all find so exciting about the thing. ditto. ditto.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
I enjoy the dreaming, design, construction probably more than the use of any project. It is me trying to prove to myself "I could do that". Therefore a common base board with the ability to be changed by addons is more suitable. I seldom go from dream to final object.
The ease of SPIN and 32 bits has done me a disservice in that I have turned away from C yet again, I really should learn it.
He mentions, agian, that Parallax will make this board available - Does anyone know·when this might be?
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
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Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I'm looking forward to these and continued articles!
Hope I can order one before next month's article!
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
I recently got this kit and built it, its pretty nice, easy to work on. Something I was wondering about is that I am only getting 4.92 VDC output on the regulated 5v side of this board. I had re-checked all my connections which are fine.· I also tried a different power suply, as well as a different meter. Is this normal for this board?
Thank You
Post Edited (charleyshf) : 9/24/2009 10:47:05 PM GMT
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