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Question about using a motor to do this. — Parallax Forums

Question about using a motor to do this.

metron9metron9 Posts: 1,100
edited 2009-06-07 23:16 in General Discussion
I am working on a little project to rock my hammock while I ponder thoughts of how the world came to be.

Doing some rudimentary work on how much power·I would need to start with, I put my wife in the hammock and attached a string to the edge and fed that string through a pully attached to a ladder. I then used a 10 poiund weight· at the other end and lifted the weight and let it fall back thus rocking the hammock. Ten pounds was also a good weight with both of in the hammock.
16 inches was the full side to side swing and the swing is about 30 full swings per minute.

The question I have is·if I use·a motor like this E-150 http://www.battlekits.com/robot_motors.htm·and a pulley with a string wound around it.

What I plan to do is monitor the current with an IC shunt like the zxct1009fct-nd and connecting a pully with the string simply power up the motor using a pwm ramp up to a specific current and then allow the hammock to swing the other way by dropping the voltage to a low level near zero. Monitoring the motors shaft (perhaps the feedback of the motors electrical generation on the counter rotation in the case of a permanent magnet motor) to see when the counter rotation stops and then ramping the motor again to a higher current eventually reaching the preset maximum swing set by the user (me).

·I tested the idea using a 5.9 to 1 15V gearmotor I had and it worked quite well with the exception the motor was a bit too small. Not sure how much power it has but i will test its power to see if it can lift 10 pounds on a string. It only pulls 180mA no load. The ratio is ok for the reverse rotation but I would expect damage would be a problem with continious use (I think alot in the hammock)

I assume that would not damage the motor even though it never reaches anything near its maximum rotation specs.

Does that sound ok?

Other Ideas are to use a gear motor like a car window motor like the AME 210 series http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/ame_motors.html

The problem I think though with a gear motor is I would not want to reverse the motor back and forth (I don't think anyway as it could be a timing issue and other wear and tear potential problems.
In the case of a gear motor though, a ratchet gear could be used to allow the reverse swing but noise could be a problem and I have not been able to find any such off the shelf ratchet gears.
Additional costs of course using a magnetic break could be used and just keep a motor spinning.
Using an eccentric and a continious rotation to move a bar could also work but the natural swing movement I think would be hard to monitor so timing would be more difficult.

I plan to order both motors mentioned above (wish I could find that window motor I had hanging in my garage, I can't remember what I did with it).

Any Ideas for using the gear motor setup and getting away from the reverse rotation problem?

Thanks.




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Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
Think outside the BOX!

Comments

  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-06-06 10:36
    I would try to find a way to pull (or push) on the hammock when it is at or close to 0 velocity at the end of it's motion. Something like a pendulum on a motor that swings back and forth. Match the speed of the motor to the resonant frequency of the hammock and it's cargo and you're off to the races.
  • stamptrolstamptrol Posts: 1,731
    edited 2009-06-06 11:55
    This is an important area of research for all thinkers and solvers of problems.

    As kwinn has pointed out, getting synchronized with the natural swing frequency of the hammock is important.

    You can measure it with ease by putting yourself in the hammock and getting an assistant to start the motion. As the hammock swings, time how long it takes to go from side to side. For a given weight, the time will be the same. It may take several hours of swinging to obtain a result you have confidence in.

    Once you know the frequency required, you can research how to control the stroke length to facilitate start-up and slow down. I would recommend a book by Chironis and Sclater, "Mechanisms and Mechanical Devices Sourcebook". It is definitely a hammock-type thinking and problem solving book!

    Cheers,

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    Tom Sisk

    http://www.siskconsult.com
    ·
  • metron9metron9 Posts: 1,100
    edited 2009-06-06 14:40
    It is fun to realize how deep one can take a simple problem like this and apply math and physics to analyze and create a solution.
    A math and physics major could simply put himself or herself in front of a blackboard and find the frequency for a given mass in the hammock.

    Since I do not have the background in math and physics I still am able to apply a common sense approach by testing as stamptrol pointed out.

    Kwinn, yes that is the way I plan to do it.

    So the main question, even if a motor is held in a stall, (assume a dozen college kids got on the hammock and the frame did not collapse) as long as the currrent is monitored and the voltage/current is ramped up to a point within the limits of the motors specs there should be no problem. I will also use logic found in garage door openers as I just fixed mine (did not grease the plastic gears for 20 years) I accidently moved the little device on the end of the motor shaft that counts the rotation. Once I found the error code listing for the blinking light I was able to fix it. So I will create an error code blinking led for the device as well. Also I will put a tempreture sensor on the motor.

    I will take some pictures and show the results when I am done. Finally we have some rain this weekend and I can clean up my bench in both my house and garage otherwise I would just be in the hammock.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Think Inside the box first and if that doesn't work..
    Re-arrange what's inside the box then...
    Think outside the BOX!
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-06-06 15:47
    Personally I feel this is a very important area of research, and we need to devote the time and effort required to come up with reliable hardware and an algorithm that would automatically adapt to match the resonant frequency of any mass in the hammock wink.gif
  • PhilldapillPhilldapill Posts: 1,283
    edited 2009-06-06 19:09
    Eeeck. Sorry guys, but I don't like this open loop approach. You may be able to find the resonant freq., but without some sort of feedback, the motor will eventually get 180 degrees out of phase, and your rock-a-by-baby contraption will come to a complete stop.

    I suggest using some kind strain guage between the motor and string. This way, you can measure the "tug" on the motor, and constantly correct the timing using this measurement. Ideally, when the motor's frequency is matched to that of the hammock, there would be virtually NO tug at all... But in reality, there is always some kind of dampening effect such as air resistnace, and internal resistive forces in the hammock. All of those forces will slow the hammock down, and eventually stop it, so in th mean time there will be some tug on the strain gauge to measure.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-06-06 20:43
    Phil, you're such a fussy guy wink.gif

    Ok here is my suggestion. The bar that sits between the hammock and frame has a vertical post hanging down with a circular segment on the bottom that makes contact with a wheel mounted on a motor.

    The motor is turned on for a brief time to drive the hammock in one direction (motor goes clockwise).

    When the hammock starts to swing in the other direction it will turn the wheel, motor, and optical encoder and the motor will be driven in the other direction for a brief time.

    The direction of the motor is determined by the encoder direction and the length of the motor on time will determine how far the hammock swings.

    If you used a permanent magnet DC motor you could use the reversal of the EMF to switch direction and do away with the optical encoder.

    How's that?
  • PhilldapillPhilldapill Posts: 1,283
    edited 2009-06-07 03:14
    I like your approach, kwinn. However, I'm not understanding the whole thing... What sort of mechanical linkage is going to supply the force from the motor, to the hammock?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-06-07 03:34
    The wheel mounted on the shaft has a rubber surface so the mechanical connection is simply friction. With the weight of a person in the hammock that should be more than adequate.
  • StarManStarMan Posts: 306
    edited 2009-06-07 05:15
    You'll need to remotely locate the motor out of audible range so as not to interrupt REM pondering.· Also, are you considering a gimballed beverage holder?
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2009-06-07 16:47
    Some motors are quieter than others. I have a couple of motors from an old tape drive that turned the tape reels and at low speeds you have to touch the shaft to see if they are running. In any case you would want to put them in an enclosure to protect them, and you could add some sound proofing to the enclosure.

    I had not considered a gimballed cup holder since drinking from a cup would require sitting up to avoid spilling. I was thinking of a long flexible straw.
  • PhilldapillPhilldapill Posts: 1,283
    edited 2009-06-07 23:16
    LOL I'm going to check back with this thread in a week. Chances are, it's going to be a giant Rube Goldberg device - my cup of tea. I love it!
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