Holly, to a great extent I agree with your post regarding massively parallel chips and "a cube like thing with cooling pores", however I expect several of those cubes to be mounted on a substrate that is an integrated part of the cooling radiator. The cubes would be immersed in the coolant and the pumping would be powered by the waste heat from the cubes much like a coffee maker pumps the heated water from the reservoir. There is a lot of research in the biomedical field using similar techniques in an effort to create a "laboratory on a chip", and they have already produced working pumps and various sensors.
Just imagine what processing power 7.99 will buy a hobbyist in 20 years
It will be orders of magnitude above the propeller...they will certainly be forced
to move from 2d to 3d because there is a limitation to how small you can shrink
traces and other things. The idea of making chips wider in 2d is absurd, 3d will rule.
Pretty much every processor will have wireless and optical I/O integrated and it's
hard to imagine there will be any processors around with less than 100,000mips or so.
(is 100,000mips a 100gips or a 100bips? )
It's possible that in 20 years we will have quantum processors within the price range
of hobbyists..... an 'entangled' propeller chip?
Indeed, and, at the risk of sounding like one of those geeky computer scientists, I think we're witnessing a very cool technology change.
Kwinn, the 3d layering Holly mentioned earlier is a more fundamental change in chip design, but "optical inter chip data handling" will be only a first step towards a more significant advance. Before quantum computing can happen, the optical data handling will move inside the chip itself, into the very junctions - resulting in 'photonic' junctions instead of 'electronic'.
This will be a leap back to the future, instead of digital transistions they'll be analog again. Yes, you could argue that PN junctions are already 'photonic' because energy state change is photonic. But instead of electrons and the absence of them (holes) "moving," the electrons will be stationary, changing state in place via resonances. Using spectroscopic phenomena is a necessary precursor to being able to grab a hold of quantum states at all. This also circumvents both the limits on voltage reduction, and the limits to shrinking junctions smaller and smaller. We've already reached that limit because quantum effects interfer with things that small. So the idea is to turn the table and use quantum effects (spectroscopic resonances) to your advantage.
Said another way, the wires to and from the chips will be replaced by nano-sized fiber optic channels - and then internal junctions of the gates will be replaced by 'photonic transistors' (phistors??). Imagine the bandwidth. Such technology might be in commericial production levels maybe 7 - 10 years out.
I'm thinking these devices may be as revolutionary as the transistor
--- and THEN comes quantum computing, which, theoretically at least, can answer your questions even before you ask them.
- Howard
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
CounterRotatingProps: I'd just like to ask you what you think about optical data handling inside the chip itself and quantum computing. Hot damn you already answered that.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
that reminds me of a cartoon... picture a guy opening his door, just after the pizza man knocks. The guy has a quizical look on his face, the pizza man's t-shirt logo says:
" Psychic Pizza - guaranteed delivery
five minutes before you think of ordering ! "
> For me, the past is not over yet.
Because it will have already happened?
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
> It's wash rags and panties I seem to mysteriously lose from the laundry...it's mysterious!
LOL ... Where does it all end up you think - is there a huge pile of stuff somewhere in the center of the Milky Way --- or maybe it's just in Hoboken, New Jersey?
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
CounterRotatingProps said...
Where are you keeping all the missing mates to all the sock pairs that have left this world? Do they have Propeller III's in your universe?
Funny you mention the prop III: obviously, in my universe, there are no even numbers. But no, the p3 is still ~1 year away, though nobody will give me an actual date, despite my begging [noparse][[/noparse]8^)
HollyMinkowski said...
LoL! I love your name and image...Lonesock
[noparse][[/noparse]8^)
Back on topic, though, the propeller is very fun to work with.!
Back off topic, perhaps in a prop-controlled dryer socks (and sundry other items, Holly) wouldn't disappear.
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
Massively parallel will still be limited by getting data in and out. It is great for problems that can be contained with in memory or on chip fabric, but once you go beyond that you are back to where we are today. I/O will eventually be the killer
Yoda said...
Massively parallel will still be limited by getting data in and out. It is great for problems that can be contained with in memory or on chip fabric, but once you go beyond that you are back to where we are today. I/O will eventually be the killer
This is what hobbled all Intel SMP implementations until very recently. All the processors shared a single, severely bottlenecked FSB to get access to RAM.
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Missed it by ->" "<- that much!
Yoda said...
Massively parallel will still be limited by getting data in and out. It is great for problems that can be contained with in memory or on chip fabric, but once you go beyond that you are back to where we are today. I/O will eventually be the killer
Nah, Yoda, it won't be.
The CPU makers will one day wake up dreaming about these things lurking·in their skunk-works departments called "Microcontrollers"·
OMG! Look at how many I/O pins they have! Why didn't we think about that!·
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
Comments
Just imagine what processing power 7.99 will buy a hobbyist in 20 years
It will be orders of magnitude above the propeller...they will certainly be forced
to move from 2d to 3d because there is a limitation to how small you can shrink
traces and other things. The idea of making chips wider in 2d is absurd, 3d will rule.
Pretty much every processor will have wireless and optical I/O integrated and it's
hard to imagine there will be any processors around with less than 100,000mips or so.
(is 100,000mips a 100gips or a 100bips?
It's possible that in 20 years we will have quantum processors within the price range
of hobbyists..... an 'entangled' propeller chip?
Indeed, and, at the risk of sounding like one of those geeky computer scientists, I think we're witnessing a very cool technology change.
Kwinn, the 3d layering Holly mentioned earlier is a more fundamental change in chip design, but "optical inter chip data handling" will be only a first step towards a more significant advance. Before quantum computing can happen, the optical data handling will move inside the chip itself, into the very junctions - resulting in 'photonic' junctions instead of 'electronic'.
This will be a leap back to the future, instead of digital transistions they'll be analog again. Yes, you could argue that PN junctions are already 'photonic' because energy state change is photonic. But instead of electrons and the absence of them (holes) "moving," the electrons will be stationary, changing state in place via resonances. Using spectroscopic phenomena is a necessary precursor to being able to grab a hold of quantum states at all. This also circumvents both the limits on voltage reduction, and the limits to shrinking junctions smaller and smaller. We've already reached that limit because quantum effects interfer with things that small. So the idea is to turn the table and use quantum effects (spectroscopic resonances) to your advantage.
Said another way, the wires to and from the chips will be replaced by nano-sized fiber optic channels - and then internal junctions of the gates will be replaced by 'photonic transistors' (phistors??). Imagine the bandwidth. Such technology might be in commericial production levels maybe 7 - 10 years out.
I'm thinking these devices may be as revolutionary as the transistor
--- and THEN comes quantum computing, which, theoretically at least, can answer your questions even before you ask them.
- Howard
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
that reminds me of a cartoon... picture a guy opening his door, just after the pizza man knocks. The guy has a quizical look on his face, the pizza man's t-shirt logo says:
" Psychic Pizza - guaranteed delivery
five minutes before you think of ordering ! "
> For me, the past is not over yet.
Because it will have already happened?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
Ah, quantum computers. Hmmm....
For the most part, humans can't even learn from the past, never mind figuring the future. So what does that make of our brains? Quagmire computers?
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Watching the world pass me by, one photon at a time.
Graffiti dialog on a university wall (the original forum posting method):
"We are nothing more than organic voltage controlled filters."
"That's the most profound thing I've ever read!"
"I was being sarcastic."
"So was I"
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
"Psychic Pizza"......I love it
Here I am dreaming of Quantum computers, but still stuck in a Newtonian universe... where my laundry waits to get done.
And after it's done, you open the dryer --- and discover that one of your socks has warped off into another dimension !
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"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
Oh my, this is getting seriously metaphysical.
Where are you keeping all the missing mates to all the sock pairs that have left this world? Do they have Propeller III's in your universe?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
It's wash rags and panties I seem to mysteriously lose from the laundry...it's mysterious!
LoL! I love your name and image...Lonesock
LOL ... Where does it all end up you think - is there a huge pile of stuff somewhere in the center of the Milky Way --- or maybe it's just in Hoboken, New Jersey?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "
[noparse][[/noparse]8^)
Back on topic, though, the propeller is very fun to work with.!
Back off topic, perhaps in a prop-controlled dryer socks (and sundry other items, Holly) wouldn't disappear.
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
This is what hobbled all Intel SMP implementations until very recently. All the processors shared a single, severely bottlenecked FSB to get access to RAM.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Missed it by ->" "<- that much!
The CPU makers will one day wake up dreaming about these things lurking·in their skunk-works departments called "Microcontrollers"·
OMG! Look at how many I/O pins they have! Why didn't we think about that!·
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"This device contains recyclable materials, which can be re-decomposed
and re-integrated into brand new marvels... We strongly encourage you
to contact the provided information and recycle yourself always. "