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What to buy as a newbie? — Parallax Forums

What to buy as a newbie?

HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
edited 2009-06-03 03:48 in Propeller 1
I have looked over the specs of the propeller and the spin and asm languages and have decided
to take the plunge so I need to buy some supplies. I'm not a beginner with programming controllers
having used asm and C on PIC and AVR...so given that what would you buy if you were just starting
out with the propeller? I'm considering the following list.

1 prop plug programmer
3 dip propeller chips
10 of the 5mh xtals (I have 10mhz xtals but the data sheet says 8mhz is max, have you guys had good luck with 10mhz xtals?)
10 32kb eeproms
ViewPort Standard

I'm going to order some kbrd and vga extension cables from China via ebay and just cut off the end and
connect directly to my test boards, this is cheaper than getting the sockets.

I have a bunch of 40pin zif sockets and I plan to use them to make moving the prop chips from board to
board easier. (40 pin zifs are 1.25 delivered from china..what a bargain)

I already have lots of standard parts like LEDs, pots, caps, diodes, resistors, transistors, optocouplers..etc so I
won't need more of them.

So, is there anything else you guys can think of that I should consider buying as a prop chip newbie???

Comments

  • KyeKye Posts: 2,200
    edited 2009-05-29 15:24
    Um, just buy the protoboard and get the vga and ps2 mouse and keyboard addon for it. I reconmend that being the best place to start. Its easier to work with this stuff.

    I also reconmend checking out.

    http://ucontroller.com/index_pro1.html

    They also sell good starter boards.

    ---

    As for software you can either buy view port for spin or the ICCV7 compilier for C. Take you pick.

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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-05-29 15:33
    Thanks ever so much for that link Kye!
    Loads of great looking stuff there smile.gif

    The C compiler is a bit expensive for the propeller, I'm used to free tools like the
    gcc compiler for ARM and AVR...but I am going to try out the demo of ICC to see
    if it is good enough to justify the price.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-05-29 15:34
    You don't really need 10 crystals or EEPROMs if you only have three props and aren't too destructive while soldering... I'd also suggest getting the spin manual and/or the PE Lab book. You may want to consider the PE lab kit. Also, you don't need view port to get started with the Propeller. There is a free editor and terminal available (no debugging though).
  • potatoheadpotatohead Posts: 10,261
    edited 2009-05-29 15:36
    Don't forget an SD card adapter!

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  • BradCBradC Posts: 2,601
    edited 2009-05-29 15:38
    HollyMinkowski said...
    Thanks ever so much for that link Kye!
    Loads of great looking stuff there smile.gif

    The C compiler is a bit expensive for the propeller, I'm used to free tools like the
    gcc compiler for ARM and AVR...but I am going to try out the demo of ICC to see
    if it is good enough to justify the price.

    Do yourself a favour and learn the native languages for the chip. C is kinda a middle ground, its not as compact as SPIN and it's slower than PASM, plus you lose a lot of the code available in the OBEX as it's mostly in native language (the C library is getting there slowly).

    SPIN is a doddle.. no really, and if you have done much asm work PASM is just as easy (and pretty quick really).

    I started with the Demo board and a couple of Proto boards. I still use the demo board to hash up quick test circuits, but I just use the Proto boards for everything else. Put a big tag or ribbon around your prop plug though. Those little buggers love to hide.

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  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-05-29 15:40
    The Educational Kit comes with a sticker you can put on the top of your Propeller so it labels P0, P1, P2, Vss, etc. very nicely. Speaking as a total newb, I found the sticker helps me a lot especially because DIP chip Pin 1 is not the same thing as Propeller Pin 1, etc. and I get confused when I'm in a hurry and it's late at night. Problem is, I can't find where Parallax sells these stickers if, in fact, they are sold separately. Anybody know? I would sure like some myself. smile.gif

    One other thing: don't hesitate to ask questions, the people on this forum are amazingly helpful.


    Cheers,
    Mark

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  • RaymanRayman Posts: 14,829
    edited 2009-05-29 15:41
    10 MHz crystals will work fine. But, you have to be careful to only set the PLL to 8X and not 16X...

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  • VaatiVaati Posts: 712
    edited 2009-05-29 16:02
    I honestly suggest you get the Propeller designer's pack (http://www.gadgetgangster.com/find-a-project/56.html?projectnum=86) from Gadget Gangster.· It's basically half a HYDRA; it has an NES socket, potentiometers, video out, all that stuff.· The one thing is, if you want to do VGA, I suggest getting the Proto board when it's on the daily deal.· It's reduced to like $17 and is on the daily deal at least once a month.· Then, just get the accessory pack, which is worth it's weight in code.· smile.gif

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    Quit buying all those fixed voltage regulators, and·get an Adjustable Power Supply·for your projects!· Includes an LED testing terminal!
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2009-05-29 16:57
    I'd suggest getting a ProtoBoard as you then have something to hand which works if what you build yourself doesn't. It's also easy to fit a 3xR TV interface and have it all running demo code in minutes which is a good ecouraging start, and it's probably the easiest way to add VGA and PS/2 connectors.

    Also consider 64KB Eeproms as the upper 32KB won't be erased every download.

    Plus, 6MHz crystals add an extra zing to execution speed.

    Make sure you've got 3V3 regulators !
  • rokickirokicki Posts: 1,000
    edited 2009-05-29 17:00
    I think everyone should have at least one demo board.

    The demo board is nice in that it runs virtually everything with no hardware effort on your part; just plug and play.

    It's very nice when someone makes a new toy and you want to just try it out in ten minutes.

    For me, well worth the investment.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-05-29 17:25
    rokicki said...
    ...
    The demo board is nice in that it runs virtually everything with no hardware effort on your part; just plug and play.....

    rokicki has a good point here. Although I don't own a demo board because I'm too cheap and I thrive on chaos, I know that it might be nice to present a problem to the forum and be able to have people rapidly load the code you're having problems with and let them see for themselves via their own demo board what's going wrong. When you have things kluged together (as I do) then the pins are all different and nobody would easily be able to come to your rescue. Having a demo board might help you in the beginning as you work your way through the learning curve, I'm guessing.


    smile.gif
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-05-29 19:57
    Spinstudio from ucontroler.com would be my recommendation

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    propmod_us are now in stock. propmod_1x1 arrive on 26th. Only $30

    Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
  • localrogerlocalroger Posts: 3,452
    edited 2009-05-29 20:18
    You should get at least one assembled board or well documented kit with all parts. I tend to agree with rokicki that a demo board is well worth it; a Spin Studio set would be about equally good, a bit more flexible with the I/O modules but lacking the built on breadboard. If that's too rich for you at least get one protoboard so you'll have an assembled version to get started with easily compare with what you build. Protoboards at the daily deal price are a great bargain since you get both regulators, a switch, power LED, and everything mounted with prototyping area for about the cost of the parts.

    Also, as BradC suggested, start off with Spin and Pasm and the free proptool; this is how the chip was designed to be used for maximum flexibility and power. All of the other stuff has advantages but also costs, such as the cog running to support a debugger or the speed penalty for C vs. PASM.
  • Steph LindsaySteph Lindsay Posts: 767
    edited 2009-05-29 20:30
    SRLM said...
    d... I'd also suggest getting the spin manual and/or the PE Lab book. You may want to consider the PE lab kit. Also, you don't need view port to get started with the Propeller. There is a free editor and terminal available (no debugging though).
    Just FYI, the Propeller Manual and the PE Labs·are included as tagged PDF files in the Propeller Tool v1.2.6., and the code examples are included as well. You are welcome to purchase hard copies, of course!

    ViewPort is powerful and fabulously graphical, definitely worth checking out.

    However, to get started there is a free "Lite" debugging object availabe in the PE Kit labs sticky-thread; it uses the Parallax Serial Terminal:

    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=617192

    Whatever you choose, enjoy!

    -Stephanie Lindsay
    Editor, Parallax Inc.
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2009-05-29 20:34
    ElectricAye said...
    The Educational Kit comes with a sticker you can put on the top of your Propeller so it labels P0, P1, P2, Vss, etc. very nicely. Speaking as a total newb, I found the sticker helps me a lot especially because DIP chip Pin 1 is not the same thing as Propeller Pin 1, etc. and I get confused when I'm in a hurry and it's late at night. Problem is, I can't find where Parallax sells these stickers if, in fact, they are sold separately. Anybody know? I would sure like some myself. smile.gif

    One other thing: don't hesitate to ask questions, the people on this forum are amazingly helpful.


    Cheers,
    Mark

    @Mark,

    See attached. You could make your own.

    @Holly,

    I really like the PEKit. Going through the labs is a great way to learn.



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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney

    Post Edited (Whit) : 5/29/2009 8:40:01 PM GMT
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-05-29 20:46
    I really needed that sticky at the start, scale it vey carefully so that is the exact size, laminate it with clear tape and stick it down. People at work will know you are pratting about with your own stuff though. smile.gif
  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-05-30 00:19
    Thanks for all the suggestions guys!
    I think I will get a kit and also one of those demo boards as well since so many think it's a good idea.

    Maybe I will wait for the daily deal to save some $ on some items though...hope they come up on sale soon smile.gif
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-05-30 02:46
    Whit said...


    See attached. You could make your own.


    ....

    Thanks, Whit. I'll give that a try.

    cool.gif
  • Cluso99Cluso99 Posts: 18,069
    edited 2009-05-30 03:09
    Firstly start with a Prop Proto Board WITH the USB. Preferably get the VGA/KBD/Mouse connector at the same time. You can make an old VGA connector fit but it covers the PS2 connectors. In my opinion, this is the best, cheapest, and quickest way to start. Look for the Parallax daily specials, although I think this one was only a week or two ago.

    You can modify the PPB (Prop Proto Board) to become a PropPlug downloader (so you don't need to buy one) - I gave OBC a circuit for this and I think he has it on his website. He has a lot of interesting and cheap ideas for beginners.

    Once you are up and running and realise what you can and might want to do, you can build/purchase whatever you need. Don't forget to ask on the forum if you want to do something. Chances are that someone has done something similar and can point you in the right direction (as you have seen here - and yes, we have differing opinions, so look carefully at what we are all saying and make an informed decision).

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  • Adam WieslerAdam Wiesler Posts: 81
    edited 2009-05-30 20:49
    I have the Propeller Demo board and love it. I'd defiantly recommend it to anyone new to the prop.

    Have Fun!

    Adam Wiesler
  • SamMishalSamMishal Posts: 468
    edited 2009-05-30 21:43
    Besides the demo board I recommend the Propeller Professional Development Board.
    ·
    I found it a great help while learning. It has all the LEDs Push buttons etc. already wired so you do not have to do it yourself.
    Also it has a VGA, PS2 head phone clock etc. It also has the USB programming interface and the EEPROM chip and 5 MHz crystal......
    so it is READY for you to use it STRAIGHT AWAY.
    All the headers are labeled already so you do not need the sticker....all pins are labeled on the board.·
    The beauty of it is that it does not have the I/O pins of the propeller all connected up and dedicated to the VGA etc. so if you
    want to use the chip to do projects that do not need these you have all the pins available.
    Nevertheless, if you want to do VGA, TV etc projects you just connect the pins of the chip to the already done for you circuitry
    with a wire (no extra components needed)....

    For all the reasons above I think it should be called the Propeller VERSATILE Prototyping Platform rather than the Professional Development
    Board. It is good for all sorts of experimenting without having to be stuck with one layout.

    ·
    I think it is also good for GENERAL project testing and prototyping before you commit to what you need.
    ·
    For a person learning the propeller it enables you to quickly try different circuitry without having to wire it yourself. LEDs, Rheostats,
    Dip Switches, Push Buttons etc. etc. etc…..are all available for use with just one wire link from the chips I/O pin header to the
    component’s header……no wiring or getting the wrong resistor values or burning up things because you forgot the resistor etc. etc.

    ·
    Regards
    ·
    Samuel
    ·




    Post Edited (SamMishal) : 5/30/2009 9:49:24 PM GMT
  • hinvhinv Posts: 1,255
    edited 2009-05-31 09:04
    I would recommend the Demo board. It is the basis for a lot of software in the object exchange, and if you say you have a demo board, everybody knows what your pin connections are for the basic peripherals.
    To echo what Cluso99 is saying, get at least 1 protoboard WITH USB. They are especially handy for hardware hacking. And using it for a propplug is a bonus.
    3 the PEKit is great. I would recommend that you NOT get the USB version for this, however. You'll miss the sticker, and you don't get the experience in setting up a bare propeller.
    I don't think you will need the crystals and EEPROMs right away because the above come with them, and they are removable.
    If you run Linux, definitely get Brad's Spin Tool.
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-05-31 11:05
    All of my props are based around the Demo Board cct (homemade) with which I have added jumper options so that things like the VGA matrix doesn't cause the two led lit together etc. One of the boards is Arduino like with Prop, regs and 232 on the base level and all the conn and Rs+Cs plug in on risers. Depends on wether you do constuctional stuff of just programming stuff.

    Holly Like you it was the video side that got me int the Prop, I was messing with M168s on ethernet with Bascom, which was flaky, and saw Ybox2. Now the AVRs are feeling neglected
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2009-05-31 11:08
    Although I have a Proto board, I designed my own single-sided prototyping boards for the DIL version of the chip and make them myself at home. They are very simple.

    Leon

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  • MicrocontrolledMicrocontrolled Posts: 2,461
    edited 2009-05-31 19:25
    If you are a total "cheapie" like me you can start with the propeller for under 25 dollers including the price of the propeller. You can use the Serial programming connection on the Propeller Schemmatic page and build it yourself. This eliminates the need for a Prop Plug. You can go on the homepage for the Propeller Professional Development Board and get the schematics or just get the Demo Board schematic on the same page as the other. You can build this all on a $5 Large Circuit Board from Radio Shack.

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  • HollyMinkowskiHollyMinkowski Posts: 1,398
    edited 2009-06-02 21:17
    @microcontrolled

    Yes, that is true, and I have everything here to build up a pretty advanced board using a few dil propellers.
    I made a really nice one with a zif socket for an ATmega644p...looks great as long as you don't flip it over
    and see the rats nest underneath. wink.gif
    I might also learn more by building myself....I'm not that good yet at the electronics and construction skills.
    I don't buy circuit boards at Radio Shack, the people there seem to be mostly idiots and the stuff is too $$$.
    Look on ebay for suppliers from China.

    I'm also waiting for the right daily deals to come up so I can order stuff, does everything eventually show up on 'the deal' ?
    Like how cheap is the Professional Development Board when it's discounted.
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-06-02 23:20
    If you're looking today the USB protoboard is on sale. As for the rest of the things, mostly it's the main non-quantity products that come up for sale. So, no Propeller chips or resistors for the daily deal.
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2009-06-03 00:08
    @HollyMinkowski,

    The Daily Deal on the Propeller Professional Development Board (if I remember correctly) is $130-ish. This is a very good deal though in my opinion. I paid the same for a blemished PPDB when they first came out.

    You still need a 40 pin Prop Chip and a power supply though. Today, the Daily Deal is the USB Prop Proto Board for $29.99 - also a good deal.

    I got the 40 pin PE Kit. Setting it up on the breadboard was very good for me to see how it went together (Prop, crystal, eprom, power supply, etc).

    I like to wait on the daily deal myself. The PE Kit now comes with the education labs in a bound form - to catch that on a Daily Deal would be great too!

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-06-03 03:48
    It's kind of hard to beat the Propeller ProtoBoard USB at $29. The sale will be over tomorrow at 9AM.
    I've noticed these daily deals come up about 1 every 6 weeks or so. The standard ProtoBoard is good
    too for the price of several boards with a Prop-Plug ... I have half a dozen or so.

    Off topic: Is your avatar charcoal on newsprint or 70lb+ paper? It's hard to tell. I like the bold lines.

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    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
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