U.S. Lags Globally in Robotics Development

SSteve

www.cra.org/govaffairs/blog/archives/000737.html

Maybe the U.S. government can buy researchers a bunch of Boe-Bots and have them spend time in this forum. They could learn a lot here.

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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

links:
My band's website
Our album on the iTunes Music Store

morris4019

Well there will be one more person working professionally on robotics soon. I start toward my college degree on Sept 1st this year. I can't wait to start school [noparse]:)[/noparse] I might be a little late to start (seeing as how i've been a machinist for the last 7 years), buy hey, better late than never.

-Mike

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······ I'll try everything once [noparse]:)[/noparse]

P!-Ro

One thing I don't understand is why they can't leave things be and let things happen naturally. When the car market started up, the government didn't do a thing to support it, however it still became one of the largest American industries. So why shouldn't they do the same for robotics?

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PG

Prettybird

I knew that years ago. I am a laid off machine tool electrician/electronics technician. I know CNC and EDM machinery well. I learned TTL and linier, but misroprocessors were just starting to come out. When I went to electronics school way back in 76, my instructor said we had the technoligy to lay off 1/2 the auto workers. Well now many moons later, natural selection took over. I have always respectted japanese as forrunners of many electronic devices. I have been to Taiwan and Japan several times and know the competition some.It is part of their culture. I hope the younger generation goes back to science. Being a nerd is cool now. lol With the internet and google almost anyone can be an engineer. Remember engineers create and technicians make it a reality. I use to have engineers for breakfast. This is just my opinion and don't mean to insult anyone.


The more you learn, the more you find you don't know. It is neverending Confucous 550 BC

SSteve

Congratulations, Mike. I'm jealous. I'd love to go back to school and get a degree. Seven years as a machinist should come in quite handy in robotics.

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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

links:
My band's website
Our album on the iTunes Music Store

SRLM

Prettybird said...
With the internet and google almost anyone can be an engineer.

I'd have to disagree. The point of engineering school (at the college level) is not to teach someone how to hook up a circuit or to write some code, it is to teach them how to think and design reliable products. Certainly, when you look around the internet and build lots of projects you're a capable roboticist (or whatever), but you're not an engineer. An engineer must know how to plan for the worst case, to build projects to specifications, and so on.

iDave

Hmmm...that sounds familiar prettybird! See below. lol

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"THE ONLY TRUE WISDOM IS IN KNOWING YOU KNOW NOTHING." - SOCRATES

Prettybird

I knew I would ruffle some feathers. been there done that and to old to go back to school.

The more you learn, the more you find you don't know. It is neverending. Confucous 550 BC.

Learning mandaran may also be a good idea

Prettybird

I ment no insult but did make you think. Mission acomplished. How can you win the baseball game if you don't have a team. lol Japanese go nuts over baseball. lol

Tom C

Hi all,

How many Japanese teams showed up for the Sparkfun AVC?

Follow the link and see: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/news.php?id=259

The Japanese seemed to be enamored with bipeds and industrial robots.

Personally, I find my UAVs ( http://diydrones.com/ )and UGVs much more useful in real life·than contest bipeds and industrial robots.

Just a thought.

Regards,
TCIII

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If you are going to send·a Robot·to save the world, you·better make sure it likes it the way it is!

SRLM

Tom C said...
How many Japanese teams showed up for the Sparkfun AVC?

How many serious researchers showed up to the Sparkfun AVC? None (as far as I can tell). The AVC was more "geek" oriented, while the article linked above is more research/industry oriented.

There are many more industrial robots than UAVs and UGV combined. Industrial robots form a basis for modern life by allowing manfucaturers to make more product faster, cheaper, and more precisely than ever before. UAVs and UGVs more fun? Probably. More useful? I'd say not.

Prettybird

I admit they do like to make their robot designs humanoid or animal like. Like I said, it is their culture. Remember they have moved a long way from transistor salesmen of the 50s. Yes they invented the transistor so I was taught in electronics school. Their kids have hobbys too just like here. Fanuk is one the biggist industrial electronics firms in the world. I have seen some wierd japanese robots on U tube in my opinion. Of what use is a robot fish. Even a centipede is sort of overkill. lol Failure in school there is not an option unless you want to upset your family. Have fun competing. You guys are the future.

P!-Ro

SRLM said...

I'd have to disagree. The point of engineering school (at the college level) is not to teach someone how to hook up a circuit or to write some code, it is to teach them how to think and design reliable products. Certainly, when you look around the internet and build lots of projects you're a capable roboticist (or whatever), but you're not an engineer. An engineer must know how to plan for the worst case, to build projects to specifications, and so on.

It depends on one's mindset. I personally am very capable of envisioning possible problems and areas of potential difficulty. However, I realize not everybody is the same way, but to say college is required to become an engineer is wrong.

"I admit they do like to make their robot designs humanoid or animal like."

I just think·the Japanese are better explained as artists than roboticists. It seems, for the most part, that they just like to use the same designs as everybody else, just with different looks and different movement capabilities.

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PG

Tom C

SRLM said...

Tom C said...
How many Japanese teams showed up for the Sparkfun AVC?

How many serious researchers showed up to the Sparkfun AVC? None (as far as I can tell). The AVC was more "geek" oriented, while the article linked above is more research/industry oriented.

There are many more industrial robots than UAVs and UGV combined. Industrial robots form a basis for modern life by allowing manfucaturers to make more product faster, cheaper, and more precisely than ever before. UAVs and UGVs more fun? Probably. More useful? I'd say not.

SRLM,

You miss the point.

Yes, we have plenty of commerical/industrial robots in the US and they definitely support our manufacturing capabilities.

But, what is the source of budding scientists and engineers for the universities and industries in the US? Precisely the "geeks" seen at the AVC.

They are learning what it take to build better and more efficient UAVs and UGVs that will take part in our Future Combat Systems.

IMHO UAVs and UGVs·might have a greater impact on our future than standardized biped robots.

Have you ever attended a US BEST, FIRST or VEX robotics competition?

Do the Japanese show up at the DARPA autonomous vehicle competition each year?

Creativity does not always come from within a university/industrial research·lab. Occasionally it comes from a garage.

Just a thought.

Regards,
TCIII

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If you are going to send·a Robot·to save the world, you·better make sure it likes it the way it is!

Prettybird

Exactly. lol Japan have their own conventions. Students there not rich enought to travel either. I have been in the now dying machine tool industry all my life and have seen the changes. Cincinatti Milicron (US biggist machine producers) can no way compete with Germany or Japan. I have seen them all side by side. We do have some of the best engineers here but a shortage of the best for sure. Motive and a passion for what you do is the most inportant thing. I have also seen so many engineering changes when building automation and robot cells automovie based. Can't these kids get it right the first time? lol No work like rework when working for contractors. Best leave the logic in the car. lol So study more and party less when in school. I think Parallax is a good thing. This thread is getting interesting. By the way, What is the difference between a geek and nurd? curious.

Philldapill

Prettybird, you might consider editing your post where you said that you had engineers for breakfast. You may have had BAD engineers for breakfast. There are tons of really crappy engineers that learned equations and what not in school, and can design around a perfect world scenario, but to be a really GOOD engineer(IMO) requires a blend of theory and real world application. What you are describing, prettybird and others, is a real world application specialist - someone who knows the nitty gritty of how to design this specific project. To be an engineer DOES require the proper education. That may not be a university, e.g. Look at Chip Gracey... A self proclaimed Dropout(forgive me if that's not the exact phrase he used).

Now, not to sound like a brown noser, but to me, Chip seems to be one of those GREAT engineers I mentioned above - the type with real world application experience, the booksmarts and theory. I'm not badmouthing either group - the booksmart engineers or the technicians. I'm just saying that to be great in either area, you DO need schooling of some kind, AND knowledge of the real world. However, most engineers seem to be more booksmart, and technicians knowing specifics, but not theory.

My $0.02.

Philldapill

And by the way, I disagree with that article, as well, but that's more of a philosophical difference. Some seem to think that the almighty government is the key to solving the world's problems, others think that bureaucracy gets in the way and becomes the problem... And then others..... think that this whole dependence ON the government to motivate innovation, and generally be the benevolent dictator we all so desperately need(sarcasm), is WHY we are lagging behind in so many areas now. Why try to succeed if you will always be taken care of by the government? Sorry, but to me, that's why we are getting into this rut. That whole mindset is what is killing the excitement and innovation, and making "us" drones of the nanny state.

My $0.04.

Prettybird

Exactly. lol The required reading of the classic 1984 is here today. I ment not to insult anyone but there are tons of crappy engineers. I even met some good ones in small companys that didn't have the degree. That is probally opsolete now, unless you own your own company. Many of the best engineers end up on military projects I believe. You only live once. Do what you do well the best you can. Ego can be your own worst enemy.

Tom C

Hi all,

When I graduated from CSUN in SolCal with my EE degree in 1978, I had a design notebook that was almost 4" thick and my prof would not give it back to me when I graduated.

The reason: He was also an instructor in Electrical Engineering at UCLA which had just been put on probation because the engineering students knew the theory, but could not design a piece of electrical/electronic equipment that could function in the real world. The CSUN Engineering Dept was going to be audited in the fall of 1978 and he wanted to prove to the audit team that CSUN graduating engineers could design and build for the real world environment. Hence he kept all of our design notebooks for proof!

Before I graduated from CSUN, I had spent 6 years in the USN as an electronic tech and nuc power tech and had some real hands-on experience before going back to college. My ability to solder and troubleshoot really came in handy. I consider myself to be a much better Systems Engineer because of my tech background. I appreciate what the techs at work can do and they respect me as a very capable engineer. Wouldn't have it any other way.

I love robotics and electronics and am constantly integrating other builder's great ideas and concepts into my own projects. I like to think out of the box when I can and try not to reinvent the wheel whenever possible.

Just a thought.....again.

Regards,
TCIII

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If you are going to send·a Robot·to save the world, you·better make sure it likes it the way it is!

Post Edited (Tom C) : 5/26/2009 12:03:45 AM GMT

Prettybird

That is good to know. I loved electronic sinc a kid and find it easy to learn, not like other things. I was fortunate and persistant enough to make a living at it. I am a native Detroiter and never had money for school. I use to be a leader in a local CNC mfg. electrical department. Teamwork is the key. I would never ask anyone to do something I couldn't. I learned to respect chinese and japanese after living in Taiwan for a year. Travel is the best teacher. That was 20 years ago and Japan more recient. I do know what americans are up against. Good luck. Detroit is a different neighborhood then CA for sure. I like this room and don't mind sharing ideas. Basic stamp is new to me. Basic machine training. If it works, don't fix it. lol Nothing wrong with making a better one.

Eric at Sac State

Hey Mr. Pretty Bird

I have read your posts with interest. I just got $9,000 dollars from president o'bama to go to school this next year.

It makes me sad to hear you say that you are to old to go to school. I am 50 years old, and back in school, this time looking for a degree in mechanical engineering.

Back in the 1980's I went through a vocational educational program, that after two years was supposed to qualify me for an an apprentaceship out at the local air base. Buy my last semester there they shut down the base, and these guys with 20 years of experience started showing up at my college thinking that more education might qualify them for a job.

So for me, it was into programming for a while, and the excitement of watching the world wide web grow, and setting up my own little online store for a while. But then came the tech wreck, and bigger outfits really started to consolidate the online stores and force us little guys out.

So anyway, I don't agree with what you say about you being to old to go to school. You got to figure that folks are starting to live a lot longer than they used to, well at least in my family. You could still be alive when you are 85 or 90 and chances are that by then, folks with a lot of work skills and experience will be more valuable than they are today. Seems like the class distinction between engineers and machinists has been erased by the computer. The guy working the drill press has been replaced by a robot, sure, and the guy doing the low level design calculations has been replaced by the cad software, but the guys with the brain power, working in the shop and on the drawing board, seems like in the future they are more and more going to be merged into the same kind of guy. So your experience will be really helpful, but maybe think about checking out some school, especially if you can get the government to pay for it?

Eric, at Sac state

Prettybird

I have joined the Michigan No worker left behind program that may cover up to $5,000 for job relatted training if I qualify. They also help with the NEW style of job searching and resume writing. Not fond with dealing with goverment programs, but no choice. I have a certificate in industrial electronics and trying to adapt my expertise into a non automotive area. Things are tight around Detroit and going back to my electronics lab in the basement for self taught fun. I like this forum alot and don't mind sharing and learning. Much better at hardware. I admit my spelling and typing are not very good so programming will be a real challange. Still waiting for parts for my first boe bot. Keeps me out of trouble. lol Thanks for the concern.

SRLM

Prettybird said...
I admit my spelling and typing are not very good so programming will be a real challange.

Glad you're here then. I've found that these forums are one of the most influential factors in my English (as in school type English) education. I believe that I'm a better writer (and speller!) for my ~2000 posts that I've manages to scrounge up.