This whole use of the term "cloud computing" really bugs me. The spirit of the word "cloud" is many small loosely coupled things dispersed over a large area/volume. Think rain clouds, or swarms of bees. The internet itself is a fine example of a cloud. Hence that cloud picture that sits in the middle of so many network diagrams.
Yet "cloud computing" seems to be the total opposite. What is proposed under the banner "cloud computing" is to take my computing and my data of off my computer, out of the cloud, and condense it into a solid blob in some central facility. Not many do work for free so I presume the motivation is to charge me for the service or find out all about me from my data for the purposes of advertising or whatever. It's a good way to get rent forever for the use of software rather than a one time purchase.
Google is a classic case of NOT cloud computing. SETI was/is a good example of the cloud computing idea even if appears to be useless.
Of course another connotation of "cloud" is to obscure...
By the way, what's the deal with VB?. One stated goal here is platform independence, should that not also apply to the server end?
Now if all Prop users were joined in a peer to peer fashion. Such that we all had access to each others code snippets, projects, documents, copies of OBEX, use of tools locally and remotely, collaborative development etc. Then we would have cloud computing.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
I'm sorry, that must all sound very negative. It's not my intention to discourage. Perhaps I don't fully understand what you have in mind. Perhaps there is the seed of a great idea there.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
I dislike marketing hype as much as you do. And we all seem to be experienced enough as programmers to recognize an idea that harkens back to the 1960's. But the cloud concept is an accepted part of the lexicon and is a legitimate extension of technology that did not exist in batch processing and timeshare situations.
Heater, I write professionally in C#. But VB, especially VB6, would be understood by a greater audience. Also, this is a collaboration. Who said I would write the code? This forum has more talented coders than I.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/20/2009 3:39:17 PM GMT
To balance my, "so what's the fuss about?", view, it's worthwhile looking at it from a different perspective, what remote hosting offers and why it's so good. Which perhaps gives an insight into why there's so much excitement about "The Cloud" ...
Abilility to access the IDE / compiler / source and object code from anywhere via a web browser or a light-weight app to disguise the web browser.
It makes the software architecture and OS agnostic; works with anything which can run a browser.
Automatic roll-out of new software to all users, no more huge downloads for tens to millions of people. Latest software and up to date documentation is there as they use it.
New facilities and tools can be easily added. Tool development times are generally reduced; it just has to work on the server, not with millions of different PC configurations.
The persuasive argument is that the local 'PC' doesn't have to be capable, just capable enough to run a web browser or the light-weight app which fakes being an IDE but is really a web browser. The only multi-platform tool necessary is the web browser.
It's a compelling thought that one doesn't need a PC, just a $10 handheld, a display, keyboard and mouse. Runs for months off a coin-cell battery. Hmm; sounds like a Propeller setup to me
The obvious negative is that it needs connectivity, preferably high-speed. Plus the risks of not having any local data if it all goes badly wrong. Then there's trust of the remote site, ownership, security, and the world ends if the host disapears. Finally, the issue of cost in accessing and using the service.
If the negatives are acceptable or mitigated it's an interesting idea. One huge server site, one per street, or even one per house it's all the same technologically. What we're really talking is a different way to do things ( "shifting the paradigm" ) and maybe it is a good way to go. I can certainly see an appeal.
Your Ybox approach with OBC sounds promising. A propeller with a telnet connection to a backend compiler is not really "the cloud", it is straight client/server. However, it is a first step to a distributed Prop development environment - if you can then replace your telnet connection with web services on a Ybox, I'll agree you're onto something.
And I promise not to pollute that thread with my skepticsm about "the cloud" and who really stands to benefit from it [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Good luck,
Ross.
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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
If the idea is to be dependent on the cloud, I would just ignore it. I agree with Phil on that issue. I like control(that's why I don't run M$)
I don't think OBC had that in mind, however.
Just thinking outloud;^)
Sometimes it would be nice to just have the propeller, a network interface, maybe some eternal ram, VGA, keyboard & mouse and do my computing with that quiet little protoboard. All of the quiet of my Commodore128 + a network connection and GBs of storage(microSD) and a bunch of propeller heads on the other ends of the internet sharing code, and chatting,etc, without having to run multiple noisy machines, distracting with flashy adds and popups, etc.
I think if OBC can increase the collaboration, I am all for it. As for what programming language, I would suggest PHP and MySQL. They are real easy to learn and platform independent. I know I wouldn't have to, but I have no desire to learn VB, or have any more MicroSoft dependence. I don't know if you noticed, there are many people on here that loath microsoft and/or their products.
the cloud definitely does not have to be microsoft based. the server farm i rent room on is linux based and they have the entire farm(well 2/3 actually) set up as 1 humongous cluster. The entire thing acts as 1 computer with an almost limitless amount of storage and a lot of processing power.
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propmod_us are now in stock. propmod_1x1 arrive on 26th. Only $30
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
Comments
Yet "cloud computing" seems to be the total opposite. What is proposed under the banner "cloud computing" is to take my computing and my data of off my computer, out of the cloud, and condense it into a solid blob in some central facility. Not many do work for free so I presume the motivation is to charge me for the service or find out all about me from my data for the purposes of advertising or whatever. It's a good way to get rent forever for the use of software rather than a one time purchase.
Google is a classic case of NOT cloud computing. SETI was/is a good example of the cloud computing idea even if appears to be useless.
Of course another connotation of "cloud" is to obscure...
By the way, what's the deal with VB?. One stated goal here is platform independence, should that not also apply to the server end?
Now if all Prop users were joined in a peer to peer fashion. Such that we all had access to each others code snippets, projects, documents, copies of OBEX, use of tools locally and remotely, collaborative development etc. Then we would have cloud computing.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Heater, I write professionally in C#. But VB, especially VB6, would be understood by a greater audience. Also, this is a collaboration. Who said I would write the code? This forum has more talented coders than I.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/20/2009 3:39:17 PM GMT
Abilility to access the IDE / compiler / source and object code from anywhere via a web browser or a light-weight app to disguise the web browser.
It makes the software architecture and OS agnostic; works with anything which can run a browser.
Automatic roll-out of new software to all users, no more huge downloads for tens to millions of people. Latest software and up to date documentation is there as they use it.
New facilities and tools can be easily added. Tool development times are generally reduced; it just has to work on the server, not with millions of different PC configurations.
The persuasive argument is that the local 'PC' doesn't have to be capable, just capable enough to run a web browser or the light-weight app which fakes being an IDE but is really a web browser. The only multi-platform tool necessary is the web browser.
It's a compelling thought that one doesn't need a PC, just a $10 handheld, a display, keyboard and mouse. Runs for months off a coin-cell battery. Hmm; sounds like a Propeller setup to me
The obvious negative is that it needs connectivity, preferably high-speed. Plus the risks of not having any local data if it all goes badly wrong. Then there's trust of the remote site, ownership, security, and the world ends if the host disapears. Finally, the issue of cost in accessing and using the service.
If the negatives are acceptable or mitigated it's an interesting idea. One huge server site, one per street, or even one per house it's all the same technologically. What we're really talking is a different way to do things ( "shifting the paradigm"
Nothing to get emotional about
I have spoken with OBC, and I am going to send him the Ybox kit, even if he throws it away. I am sure he will come up with a use for it.
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JMH
Your Ybox approach with OBC sounds promising. A propeller with a telnet connection to a backend compiler is not really "the cloud", it is straight client/server. However, it is a first step to a distributed Prop development environment - if you can then replace your telnet connection with web services on a Ybox, I'll agree you're onto something.
And I promise not to pollute that thread with my skepticsm about "the cloud" and who really stands to benefit from it [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Good luck,
Ross.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
I don't think OBC had that in mind, however.
Just thinking outloud;^)
Sometimes it would be nice to just have the propeller, a network interface, maybe some eternal ram, VGA, keyboard & mouse and do my computing with that quiet little protoboard. All of the quiet of my Commodore128 + a network connection and GBs of storage(microSD) and a bunch of propeller heads on the other ends of the internet sharing code, and chatting,etc, without having to run multiple noisy machines, distracting with flashy adds and popups, etc.
I think if OBC can increase the collaboration, I am all for it. As for what programming language, I would suggest PHP and MySQL. They are real easy to learn and platform independent. I know I wouldn't have to, but I have no desire to learn VB, or have any more MicroSoft dependence. I don't know if you noticed, there are many people on here that loath microsoft and/or their products.
Just my 10 bits worth.
Doug
I guess you are exhausted from fighting the vast Evil Microsoft to notice these things
Educate yourself. Read some research papers.
Above all, Relax.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/23/2009 6:25:32 AM GMT
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propmod_us are now in stock. propmod_1x1 arrive on 26th. Only $30
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
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For me, the past is not over yet.