Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Comments directed at novices...from a novice — Parallax Forums

Comments directed at novices...from a novice

rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
edited 2009-05-04 02:24 in Propeller 1
Hi Guys (and Gals)

1. I must be a half a step ahead of someone... so, if that happens to be you. Let me give you some advice.

When you get a circuit that works... don't just tear your bread board apart. You will eventually forget what you think you know... and the circuit
that could refresh your memory... will be gone. Get some kind of PCB... and immediately transfer your bread board creation... then put the name of your Spin file on the back.

I do this myself after visiting a manufacturer and seeing a football field sized wall... with every little prototype that the manufacturer had ever produced for the previous 100 years... Yes, there are some companies out there that have been around that long.

2. When you need to remember something... get out the PCB copy of your circuit and refresh yourself.

3. Don't expect this to work every time. I am about to refresh my thread on transistors and 96 bit pixels... but before I do, let me explain why the thread exists. I made a circuit... a remote controlled video switcher. It worked... I committed it to a RadioShack board. When I wanted to use the same transistor for my 96 bit pixel as I had for this board, I went to my reference circuit... plopped it in. AND IT DIDN"T WORK.

I didn't know why... I spent days reading and re-reading, still I couldn't figure it out. Finally, I downloaded the spec sheet for the transistor ... and I had the sucker in backwards. Why it worked for my video circuit, I haven't a clue.

4. Absolutely the most flexible PCB for Prop work is from http://gadgetgangster.com/ Have a look. If you are serious about your work... you need some of those boards.... get them while they are hot.

Rich

Comments

  • Beau SchwabeBeau Schwabe Posts: 6,568
    edited 2009-05-03 05:52
    rjo_,

    I'm a big fan of Solderless Bread Boarding, and here is a tip that I find helpful.

    1) Once you have a design working the way you want it on a SBB, transcribe it to a schematic.

    2) Re-build your design·from the schematic created from Step #1 on another SBB

    3) If all is well you won't need to repeat Step #1.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Beau Schwabe

    IC Layout Engineer
    Parallax, Inc.
  • PhilldapillPhilldapill Posts: 1,283
    edited 2009-05-03 06:08
    I couldn't agree more. I think I've finally learned that memory fades - and so do brilliant ideas. I can't tell you how many times I've cooked up some amazing circuit(to me at least) on a breadboard, then later tried to translate what the heck I did, and failing horribly. It's better to take notes of even the silliest things that you're SURE you'll remember later.

    I've learned to force myself to jot things down, even if they seem trivial at the time. It's been a lifesaver, and has saved alot of time in the long run by not having to re-invent the wheel.

    Post Edited (Philldapill) : 5/3/2009 6:26:00 AM GMT
  • SRLMSRLM Posts: 5,045
    edited 2009-05-03 06:47
    I carry around a notebook and pencil all the time, in case I think of anything interesting and want to remember it. It's very handy. Sometimes, though, I deviate and use computer paper or something: inevitably, it will get lost somewhere down the line, just before I need the notes on there...
  • EricGarlicEricGarlic Posts: 41
    edited 2009-05-03 09:06
    I use evernote for all my note taking. It is free, it is accessble everywhere, OCR, pictures, hand drawings. searchable, timelined, can add to-do's....

    www.evernote.com

    Eric
  • Toby SeckshundToby Seckshund Posts: 2,027
    edited 2009-05-03 10:02
    Thank God, it isn't just me. I have flashes of insiration (relative) try it move on try something else ....
    After about 10+ flashes I've forgoten what the question was and have to retrack everything.

    The only problem with creating the PCB approach is I tend to recycle bits endlessly unless a definite usage is found. Demo boards and programmers aside. She wouldn't let me keep too much "junk" anyway.

    I was chatting to a work colegue about 70s and 80s SBCs and what we had done with them and of course never documented anything at all.
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2009-05-03 13:19
    One of the first and most important things I learned during my engineering training with the Marconi Radar company was "keep a log book". Day by day, step by step. Record all changes and all results.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    For me, the past is not over yet.
  • Oldbitcollector (Jeff)Oldbitcollector (Jeff) Posts: 8,091
    edited 2009-05-03 13:45
    @rjo_:

    This is where the "Propeller Cookbook" came from.. They were my personal notes, made so that I wouldn't forget things. [noparse]:)[/noparse] I've even grabbed a copy from time to time to remind myself how something hooks up. [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    OBC

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    New to the Propeller?

    Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2009-05-03 14:06
    Sometimes my only record of what I have done is on the forum...so that's another idea. No matter how trivial... if it is new to you... post it. It will always be there.
  • TreeLabTreeLab Posts: 138
    edited 2009-05-03 14:41
    My memory and dedication to making notes are definitely on the wane, and obviously this is bad for new projects...

    An easy thing to do is to take lots of digi photos of projects as you go (as well as taking as many notes as possible) There is an enormous amount of info in a visual aide-memoire, and there are not so many scraps of paper to misplace. This is our lab practice as well : when working on equipment, shoot lots of photos before going in to make changes. It can capture the details that notes alone can't.

    Cheers!
    Paul Rowntree
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2009-05-03 17:09
    TreeLab said...
    An easy thing to do is to take lots of digi photos of projects as you go (as well as taking as many notes as possible) There is an enormous amount of info in a visual aide-memoire, and there are not so many scraps of paper to misplace...

    I use a program called iView Media Pro to catalog all my photos. Since I take quite a lot of photos I can figure out where I was and what I was doing by sorting the photos by keyword, date or whatever. Of course this fine program was bought by Micro$oft and is now called Expression Media. nono.gif

    So I agree completely, keeping a photo record is a great help. Equally important though is cataloging those photos with keywords so that you can zero in on just what you need. Oh, and make backups!

    Rich H
  • Ole Man EarlOle Man Earl Posts: 262
    edited 2009-05-03 17:31
    I totally agree with W9GFO. Most of us have a cell phone with a camera on it. Use it! We tend just not to think of the cell phone camera.
    BTW I am N8TV
  • W9GFOW9GFO Posts: 4,010
    edited 2009-05-03 17:35
    Ole Man Earl said...

    BTW I am N8TV

    I know, I looked you up! Not too many Earl's that are Hams in Mountainair, NM

    I was traveling through NM a few weeks ago and got on the 2 meter net. Talked with KD4HE briefly, he was talking about some robot that he was making. Do you know him?

    Rich H

    Post Edited (W9GFO) : 5/3/2009 5:41:42 PM GMT
  • rjo_rjo_ Posts: 1,825
    edited 2009-05-04 00:42
    I agree with everything above. I have to admit that I have done dozens of little projects, and I have yet to create a schematic. And in this case, creating a schematic would have saved me several days of worry.

    Beau...

    You can lead a horse to water...

    Rich
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2009-05-04 00:49
    Paint is good for capturing ideas schematically except you have to make your symbols by hand. Resistors are hardest [noparse]:)[/noparse]
    Eagle (and others) is a nice package with tons of library symbols if you have time/patience to learn it and is free with some restrictions. I use a project notebook for keeping track of consulting activity/hours mostly.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    --Steve


    Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
    http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
  • mctriviamctrivia Posts: 3,772
    edited 2009-05-04 00:58
    Note taking is very important and not something I am good at. After every revision of a program or circuit board design I zip all related files together and name the file with a version number. this way I can always go back to previous versions.

    For photography I keep my GPS tied to my camera so I always have the location and time I took all my pictures at. Important since I take over 50,000 a year. Have not thought of taking pictures of circuit boards for reference sake but will have to start doing that.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
  • ElectricAyeElectricAye Posts: 4,561
    edited 2009-05-04 02:24
    blush.gif
    About 18 months ago I was asked to work on a pro bono research project involving photon counting. At the time, I knew next to nothing about electronics but the project seemed insane enough to warrant my full attention, so I quickly put together a circuit based on a few things I had read. It used an ultrafast comparator on a small breadboard and, though I whipped it up in one night and it looked like a little wig of wires, it worked like a charm. Everyone was happy, so I agreed to take on the project and went on to build a larger circuit using a dozen comparators, etc. This time, however, I worked very methodically, took my time, made all the wiring nice and short and very attractive. I was so confident it would all work that I never bothered testing any of the circuits until I was done wiring the entire thing. Problem was, after finishing my breadboard masterpiece, none of it worked. None of the comparators would remain stable. Each squealed and squeaked in its own crazy way.

    I spent two weeks trying to figure out what I had done wrong. Finally, I started doing my homework, reading about ultrafast comparators for the first time. And - duh - what did I find? First of all, using such comparators on a breadboard is a big NO-NO. Second, a ground plane was essential. And third, I was supposed to use low-loss bypass capacitors and not the cheap junk I had started with. At the time, I didn't even know what a ground plane was. Long story short, I switched from breadboards to soldering everything onto protoboards with ground planes, etc. After that, all the circuits worked as they should. Everything was rock solid stable.

    So the big question remained: how come my original little wig of wires worked so well? I went back to it and found that if I bent one of the wiggy wires even a little, the comparator would go unstable. If I bent the wire back into position, all was well again. The same was true for several other wires I had looping through the air. Somehow, by some twist of fate, that crazy little wig had tuned things just right and kept the comparator rock solid. Had it not worked so well after one night of kluging, I probably would have never got involved in all this electronics nonsense in the first place. Ah, but alas, here I am. "Believe in God now?" asked one of my colleagues. "Still not sure about God," I answered, "But of the Devil I am certain: he dwells inside a breadboard."


    devil.gif
Sign In or Register to comment.