Propeller + Pinball

LEDboy

Anybody else thought about making a Propeller driven PinBall machine? I dont think the Propeller portion would be to hard...but designing the pinball machine...well not even sure where to start with that...anyone know how to make a pinball machine?

Cluso99

What about on-screen and use the control keys?

Of course, if you want a real one, you will have to use the accelerometer chips for tilt detection ·and perhaps a GPS chip for theft detection?

I suspect the real ones use solenoids which operate when the stainless ball shorts the contacts.

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

Post Edited (Cluso99) : 4/30/2009 6:16:46 AM GMT

kwinn

Cluso99, you are right about the solenoids and the stainless ball shorting the contacts. I am not sure if LEDboy was suggesting writing a video pinball game or using it to update an old pinball machine but the propeller certainly would be a great choice for refurbishing and updating the electronics of an old pinball machine.

ericball

Cluso99 said...

I suspect the real ones use solenoids which operate when the stainless ball shorts the contacts.

Uh, no.· There are a variety of different switches and sensors which a pinball machine uses to detect where a ball is, but I don't believe open contacts shorting out is one of them.· Also, solinoids are typically used to move things like flippers.

A Prop would be an interesting brain for a pinball machine as you could easily dedicate a single cog to handling the switch and lamp matricies.


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Composite NTSC sprite driver: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=800114
NTSC color bars (template): http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=803904

Nick McClick

The ball doesn't short contacts, the ball eventually will get dirty and that won't be very reliable. You've got a few devices on the table - solenoids, switches and magnets. Ocassionally, you'll have a motor to drive features and other stuff. Lots of lights, too. Electromagnets are used on a many tables, too (like the twilight zone).

The way pinball games are usually developed is based on a system platform. The CPU (usually a 6800 series) runs an interpreter, and the game designer will write scripts to create the game rules, scoring, etc. You need to make it easy to change parameters of the game when doing play-testing, making harder versions, etc. I think a good place to start would be to grab an existing table, keep the electromechanical stuff and replace the system board. It would be a pretty cool project!

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Gadget Gangster - Share your Electronic Projects - Sign up as a Designer and get a free 4-pack of Project Boards!

LEDboy

You all are on the same page as I am...I want to build an old time pinball machine...but I thought about trying to find an old one that needs work just to see how everything goes together...I thought it might be a good test for the Propeller...In fact the game was going to be based on the Propeller chip.

kwinn

Nick, aybe there was a switch hidden in the post the two metal rings were mounted on, but it sure looked like the ball bearing touching those rings actuated the solenoid.

Cluso99

Yes, I thought the ball made contact with the rings. Likewise, when the ball landed in a hole it usually had two solid wires across the hole which would be shorted and the solenoid would fire the eject mechanism. I think there were microswitches behind the elastic band style bumpers also.

However, all this is from my recollections of playing the machines as a kid. I have no actual knowledge. These machines originally predated ICs, so I think it would be reasonable to suspect it was all based on solenoids and maybe·transistor and r/c circuits.

If it was not based on·a conductive ball, then how could it have possibly worked???

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

GameHacker

For the past year, (In my spare time) I have been working on a replacement MPU board for the Gottlieb System 1 pinball - using the Propeller. There are a couple of other people that have made replacement MPU's, but they all suffer from the same thing - custom logic chips. I do not have any custom parts on my board, well unless you count the eeprom the propeller uses.

I have been collecting pinballs for 20+ years, and I have never seen a case where the ball is used as a conductor. All games that I have seen use either a micro switch with some fancy bent wire to actuate it, or a leaf type switch with gold contacts.

So far, I have a prototype installed in a Totem pinball. I am simply amazed at the speed of the prop. Currently I am driving the entire pinball with just 3 io lines. All the inputs and outputs are drivin with 74hct595 and 74hct165 shift registers. 1 cog is updating all 28 score digits, all 8 soleniods, 36 lamps, and reading 74 switches. I actually had to put a delay in the update routine, as it was updating everything over 3000 times a second!
I still have many bugs to squash, but I intend on posing the source code, with hopes that anyone can customize one of these machines. One of the great things about using the prop, is the user can connect a tv to the pinball and see all of the switches on the screen for diagnostics.

-Brian

kwinn

GameHacker, thanks for the clarification. Like Cluso I have very little experience with pinball machines, and that only from checking the contacts/switches and solenoids with an ohmmeter for a friend.

Cole Logan

GameHacker you wouldn't know where you can get cheap old pinball machines. Fixing/making a machine has bin High on my list of things I want to do.

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1986 Chevy EL Camino·· No prop yet

1984 Suzukie GS1100GK No prop yet

GameHacker

I would look locally first.· Check Craigslist.com for 'pinball' or look in the yellow pages under 'Amusement Devices' for a local operator.· They usually have some sitting in the back room·collecting·dust. ·If you get really desperate, you can check ebay in the 'Collectibles > Arcade, Jukeboxes & Pinball' section.·

mctrivia

I thought about replacing the brain in a pin ball machine but I decided the noise generated by the relay logic was half the fun. every machine I have fixed has been entirely relay logic based

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Joms

I have an old unit that in my basement.· It has very few relays, well, they are actually motor driven relays.· To get the lights to chase around the display it has a motor that spins a wheel of contacts that brushes agains the wires.· I am guessing this think is 1960ish-1970ish.· Never really found out, but I know it is old.· The way mine works is the ball bumps something like a rubber peice or wood peice, at that inturn hits two contacts.· I am away from my house for a while but when I get back I will try to take a picture of the guts.· I spend more time looking at the guts run and work they I do playing it...

parts-man73

interesting link - GameHacker, is that you ?

xtcpinball.com/?p=43

I've been searching, I seem to remember a thread on this a year or more ago, but I forgot if it was a Parallax forum or somewhere else. I remember following links to a company that sold repair parts for pinball machines. I'll keep looking.

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Brian

uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller

PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!

SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board

Post Edited (parts-man73) : 5/1/2009 8:18:14 PM GMT

mctrivia

the reset system is usually done by a big disk with contractors all around. by spinning the disk it opens and closes the contacts much the same way punch cards fed data in

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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.

Cluso99

Thanks guys for the info. Now I have a better understanding of how they worked. Your ideas sound really interesting

Microswitches are cheap these days and can be fed to the prop which can run drivers for the solenoids, and can make all kinds of interesting sounds with Ale's??? sound generator and video displays with VGA/TV

Like an old pinball with modern effects I used to love playing pinballs when I was a kid.

When you get these running, some pics would be great to see [noparse]:)[/noparse]

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Links to other interesting threads:

· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm

SSteve

Cole Logan said...
GameHacker you wouldn't know where you can get cheap old pinball machines. Fixing/making a machine has bin High on my list of things I want to do.

If you happen to be in Northern California next month, check out the annual Pin-A-Go-Go in Dixon. I got a South Park machine there last year. There's no end of knowledgeable people at the show. If you can't go to the show, contact the organizer and he may be able to point you in the right direction.

And, no, there's no way I'm gutting my machine to put a Propeller in it!

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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

links:
My band's website
Our album on the iTunes Music Store

LEDboy

I'm sooo there at the Pin-A-Go-Go... I just spent 6 hrs lastnight after work playing pinball at a gas station across the street from my house. I got all the kids...I say kids cause I'm 32 and their all 22 to 25. Into playing PinBall insteat of the PS3...there were about 10 of us there...I told them about this forum I started and they got all excited and were throwing ideas around left and right. The gas station is just down the street form Parallax off of Fariway and Blue Oaks. I cant wait to start building...I have my dad working on his CAD program to design pinbal mechine its self...and I'm working on the propeller stuff...So I will have a lot of questions...just a heads up.

SSteve

I have a friend in Fresno who builds and refurbishes pinballs. He's more into the art and fabrication than electronics. He makes playfields, silk-screens backglass, etc. He had a machine at Pin-A-Go-Go last year that he custom-made for a band called the Hellacopters (picture link). He also collaborated on some machines that sold for $50k+ at the Oakland museum of art. If you get seriously into this I can hook you up with him.

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OS-X: because making Unix user-friendly was easier than debugging Windows

links:
My band's website
Our album on the iTunes Music Store

Nick McClick

I would also recommend California extreme - that's the one I go to every year. There are breakouts, people bring their home made tables, movies, etc - it's in Santa Clara this year.

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Gadget Gangster - Share your Electronic Projects - Sign up as a Designer and get a free 4-pack of Project Boards!

Cole Logan

Well I don't think that I will be able to go to either of those events seeing that I am in Ohio. but I will definitly be looking around for a cheap machine to work on.

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1986 Chevy EL Camino·· No prop yet

1984 Suzukie GS1100GK No prop yet

LEDboy

Ok I found a great site to find any pinball machine you could every want here it is http://www.xmission.com/~daina/classified/index.html
I found a few machines for 100.00 and 200.00