On offering kits
Oldbitcollector (Jeff)
Posts: 8,091
Reading Rich's comments in the modem thread, I thought this deserved a thread of it's own.
(I've already hijacked Ahle's thread, and don't want to start a streak!)
I ran into the problem of introducing the Propeller to "unwashed masses" last week with
when I discovered a 14 year old who was excited about doing his own electronics, but
didn't know where to begin. Of course I talked to him about the Propeller, and have
invited him to look at the Parallax homepage, Cookbook links, games, etc
I suddenly realized that I'm so deep into this stuff that it's still difficult for someone
to find their way easily into the really interesting stuff. Like others, I've done some
work to "beat a path" into getting started, but more needs to be done here.
The demoboard would have been an obvoius answer, but I doubt that his parents
would shell out that kind of money for something that *might* be shelved.
Honestly, the demoboard takes away some of the joy of building it yourself.
There needs to be some work left to make it interesting, hence the Protoboard.
{at least in this young mans case}
The price for entry needs to be as cheap as possible. If we can get them
playing games/video with a keyboard connector under $30, I think everyone wins.
@more or less directed at Ken
How about creation of some add-on kits for the Protoboard?
Each kit would be more about the information, and could be marketed for
about $5.00 each. This isn't a lot of money, but we're setting the hook here.
Kit 1: Three resistors and a video connector.
Kit 2: Resistor, 2 caps and video connector. (audio)
Kit 3: Parts for Phil's modem project.
Kit 4: Parts for an SD connection.
A page of instruction could be included in each kit for how to solder it
specifically to the Protoboard.
uController.com has done some good work here, but there is opportunity for growth.
We've got to examine the "Parallax" a little more and see it from the direction of
new users again. (At least I am.) [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
(I've already hijacked Ahle's thread, and don't want to start a streak!)
I ran into the problem of introducing the Propeller to "unwashed masses" last week with
when I discovered a 14 year old who was excited about doing his own electronics, but
didn't know where to begin. Of course I talked to him about the Propeller, and have
invited him to look at the Parallax homepage, Cookbook links, games, etc
I suddenly realized that I'm so deep into this stuff that it's still difficult for someone
to find their way easily into the really interesting stuff. Like others, I've done some
work to "beat a path" into getting started, but more needs to be done here.
The demoboard would have been an obvoius answer, but I doubt that his parents
would shell out that kind of money for something that *might* be shelved.
Honestly, the demoboard takes away some of the joy of building it yourself.
There needs to be some work left to make it interesting, hence the Protoboard.
{at least in this young mans case}
The price for entry needs to be as cheap as possible. If we can get them
playing games/video with a keyboard connector under $30, I think everyone wins.
@more or less directed at Ken
How about creation of some add-on kits for the Protoboard?
Each kit would be more about the information, and could be marketed for
about $5.00 each. This isn't a lot of money, but we're setting the hook here.
Kit 1: Three resistors and a video connector.
Kit 2: Resistor, 2 caps and video connector. (audio)
Kit 3: Parts for Phil's modem project.
Kit 4: Parts for an SD connection.
A page of instruction could be included in each kit for how to solder it
specifically to the Protoboard.
uController.com has done some good work here, but there is opportunity for growth.
We've got to examine the "Parallax" a little more and see it from the direction of
new users again. (At least I am.) [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Comments
What I find most seductive about the Propeller is that I can go in any direction I want ... from the totally cerebral to mindless activity that is just plain fun to do.
... and yet, if you look at the overall presentation... what you see when you google "Parallax Propeller" ... that mental picture, which gets created by your search, doesn't begin to reflect the quality of experiences or the incredible opportunity to learn, which I have had for the past couple of years.
By having a large repository of kits, what do we lose? At the worst you have the small effort of creating a tiny pcb, maintaining a parts list and retaining the pertinent links.
Not that the good folks at Parallax should do this, they are busy enough.
Possibly a fixed reward for kit creation would be in order... just enough to cover the basic costs and with the requirement that the kit first be offered somewhere on the web... hopefully at a site that gets plenty of traffic.
Parallax could look at it as cheap advertising that will have a permanent value.
Rich
Also thinking that the design of a minimal breadboard kit might be another attractive hook.
Gonna look at this a little more and see if this could be achieved. I'll bet Parallax already
has the inventory listed for this project. Perhaps a page with the outline of the kit, and
direct links to each item would do the trick.
In these economic times, a $20+ dollar lure might be a good idea. (It worked on me)
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
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Need to make your prop design easier or secure? Get a PropMod has crystal, eeprom, and programing header in a 40 pin dip 0.7" pitch module with uSD reader, and RTC options.
uController.com - Spin Studio is a nice intermediate between Prop Demo and "empty" Proto Board
the Cookbook, of course
and GadgetGangster.com
Gadget Gangster does not have a lot in the area of this discussion right now, But that would be the perfect place for OBC to use to sell kits for some of the projects in the Cookbook. I would have just gone and done that myself except for the whole not being a bastard thing... I'll have my own stuff up there soon enough.
The point being that it would be great to use the resources at hand before creating yet another lost resource, and I totally agree with getting some Fun and Simple stuff out there for kids (like me, and a bit younger) to play with.
Also, once you've gotten to the level of writing CPU emulators, it must be easy to forget the simple things in life (I, for one, wouldn't know). At one point, I was going to post a spin object for using the LED's on the Demo board (or similarly wired on any board) as an at-a-glance, measurement display. In other words, a bar graph with a couple of different options. I didn't post it because it seems embarrassingly simple, and I figured Everybody probably has some version already worked out... After reading through an awful lot of posts, though, I start to wonder if some people would not come up with that concept because it is too simple.
I applaud OBC for taking a look back over his shoulder.
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Most of these prices are from Parallax.
Propeller Chip $12.00
Crystal $ 1.10
32K EEPROM $ 1.79
3v Regulator $ 1.99
Enclosed 4 “AA” Battery Holder $ 1.99 Radio Shack
6" Modular IC Breadboard $10.99 hobbyengineering.com (I know I've seen cheaper!)
3" pack of wires $ 1.99
Required Resistors (Video/audo) $ 2.00
RCA to Breadboard Adapter $ 4.99
PS2 Adapter $ 4.99
total $43.00
I've got to do some more research and see if I can get this to $25-$30.
Something like this might make a nice gift for my 14 year old friend.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
The usb proto board cost $40.
Mouser could do a bit better on some of these components.
What about using solderable jumpers to hook up to different spots on a custom board? Soldering is half the fun anyway.
But really I haven't sold many of them, in fact I will probably not be building any more products to sell.
The effort is just not worth the reward.
I'd be willing to send one to your friend as a gift. Let me know.
Prop Mini Dev Board http://www.hittconsulting.com/propminidevbrd.htm
Bean.
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There is a fine line between arrogance and confidence. Make sure you don't cross it...
Post Edited (Bean (Hitt Consulting)) : 3/4/2009 10:06:26 PM GMT
I'd like to comment on only one piece for now: kits vs. pre-built products.
There was a time when Parallax provided more parts kits that required soldering. About 6-8 years ago we started taking a breadboard approach. All of the Stamps in Class kits could be built on the BOE (so soldering). Or there were modules, and they simply plugged onto the BOE or other boards we manufacture(d). Somehow we·took the trajectory of making everything easy -·in fact, our tech support had a lot of influence in this way.·If it didn't fit together in five minutes it wouldn't be available, or something along these lines. The whole approach sort of fit in with the economic trends, now that I look back: make it·easy to use, high reward for low effort, etc.·. . perhaps fostering laziness and lack of soldering.
Today our customer requests are·for more kits.·I've·personally had a tremendous eye-opener teaching my son to solder (he's 9; the younger one is 7).·I've delayed·a real introduction to the BASIC Stamp because he's really motivated by soldering the Velleman kits - and he's become quite good.·In fact, you, Beau and I went to Fry's when you visited us a month ago and I bought some more kits. BTW, I'm still looking for one of those "clips" you spoke about for·holding parts in the PCB for soldering. Can't find 'em.·His friends come over to build kits, too.
I recognized that if I could have him build a·Propeller from DIP parts he'd be·really excited. So I plan on making that my first PCB project [noparse][[/noparse]I've never designed a PCB, partially because the guys in our office do it sooo well, but also because I'm really a business goon and I still consider myself·surprised to follow our own documentation and get positive results]. I just know that this will be the right introduction·to programming after being able to build it. Then, the project begins instead of ends as it does with the Velleman logic kits.
Second topic -- really a sub-topic yet a frequent thought at Parallax. We have one sensitivity towards kits geared at the Prop:·uController, Gangster Gadget,·Bean, and so many of you offer neat products of the kit variety.·Being involved·could mean "wrecking the fun" for those of you who are also our customers. One thing we have tried to do is feature all of your products on our web site so our customers may contact you directly.·These kits won't generate the profit we need to pay our staff, but they may serve a more important purpose in the homes of uC, GG, Bean, etc. There, I've cleared my conscience!
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Ken Gracey (Parallax)) : 3/4/2009 10:08:34 PM GMT
That's what I mean by "lost resource". Where would someone have found out about the Mini Dev Board?
One great thing about the internet is, everybody can sell a product, making choices nearly unlimited.
One horrible thing about the internet is, everybody can sell a product, making locating the product of your choice nearly impossible.
The worst thing about shopping on the internet is, the one thing you really need is out there, and you may never know it exists.
As for soldering vs. breadboarding - when you're learning a technology, breadboarding is critical so you are not going through a fortune you haven't inherited yet, buying parts to build "fundamentals" projects. If I had to solder and desolder all the components when I was learning... oh wait, I did... the point is, it's a terrible waste to solder each two LED, three jumper project, but once you've gotten past that level, and want to build a kit that will sit, intact, on your shelf until you can show it to your kid, then you need a more durable kit than a breadboard. There is, and will be, a need for both breadboard learning kits, and solder required project kits.
Are we talking about swinging back to a point where HeathKit wouldn't have gone out of business and Radio Shack had racks full of components? (he asked gleefully)
Edit: Just read Ken Gracey's post: It might, in the end, be most appropriate for Parallax to "push" the fundamentals bread board stuff and leave the hardwired project kits to those who want to spend the time and effort developing them. I, for one, really appreciate Parallax sharing the love with kit vendors because there's no place else I would have found out about them!
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Post Edited (WNed) : 3/4/2009 10:01:33 PM GMT
I considered giving him mine or a spare Protoboard with some parts.
My development board hasn't seen a lot of use because I ran into power problems with the USB
connection. Any chance this board could be retrofit with a 5v power supply? (Pack of batteries?)
Did you ever bring out your BASIC computer design? I've been waiting to see it.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Actually I forgot about the BASIC firmware. Mike Green helped alot with it and I never finished it.
It is the same board, you just have to reprogram it with the femtoBASIC software.
I'll try to devote some time to finishing it up in the next week or two. I assume I can count on you as a tester ?
As for an external supply, you could connect +5V to the header pins, but it will still draw power from the USB port too.
Bean.
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- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
There is a fine line between arrogance and confidence. Make sure you don't cross it...
Post Edited (Bean (Hitt Consulting)) : 3/4/2009 10:21:52 PM GMT
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS
Ken, I really must say, the amount of support that Parallax has given myself and others in a similar position has been amazing. I understand your position and it makes sense. I couldn't just stand by and read those words though without saying my "thanks". I'm ever mindful that Parallax is doing advertising on my behalf, so I always strive to provide good customer service. I never want to release a design until it is ready (and I'm ready to supply product), if that delays releases the launch of a new product, so be it. I'd rather do things right the first time.
It'd be a shame - you've had some really innovative, unique and useful products. I understand lately you've probably seen the same dropoff in sales that I have. I'm sure that the current economy has much to do with this, as when people are financially bleeding, the first expenses to be cut are (or at least should be) hobbies and entertainment.
A new concept that I'm toying with that may be what you're going after here....the marketing dept here at uController.com has come up with the name "SpinStudio Stackers" It's basically a single PCB "shield" that plugs onto a SpinStudio mainboard, over all 4 sockets, and includes all the components needed to perform a certain task.
The first PCB in the series is themed after gaming on the Propeller. It includes 2 NES ports, an SD socket, mouse and keyboard ports(a stacked connector this time) and 3 RCA jacks for composite video and stereo sound, so it will plug into a TV like a standard VCR or DVD player.
There's a few other single board solutions coming soon too, for example, Hanno's IO Dreamkit.
I must apologize to those that have known about some of these coming attractions and have been waiting awhile. There have been a few staffing problems at uController.com. The order-fufillment, shipping and customer relations departments are the only departments fully staffed at the moment. All employees in the design, graphics arts and marketing departments were transfered to the construction and remodeling department. By order of the Queen.
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Brian
uController.com - home of SpinStudio - the modular Development system for the Propeller
PropNIC - Add ethernet ability to your Propeller! PropJoy - Plug in a joystick and play some games!
SD card Adapter - mass storage for the masses Audio/Video adapter add composite video and sound to your Proto Board
Post Edited (parts-man73) : 3/5/2009 5:57:27 AM GMT
Ken:
What is really needed is a set of stickies where projects can be listed with links to threads. I have requested this many times without response, so I have created my own version (see my signature links below - thanks to OBC for the idea). Unfortunately it still gets lost as it gets older. I do not wish to use the wiki - this forum is the place for these. This is, I believe, the most active and helpful forum. It caters for all levels of experience.
I haven't posted in the OBEX - I guess I have just moved on with designs before I was ready to post there. And besides, if we all posted there we would end up with the same problem.
Most of the projects offered by the users on the forum could not possibly be commercially viable. For example, I have spent 100's of hours on my MultiBladeProps. I will be lucky to cover the actual costs of producing the PCBs. It is a hobby and that is what most of us are doing. For those using the prop commercially (and we probably don't get to hear about many of these), commercial products can withstand the development and programming costs, and are priced accordingly.
So, in summary, we need a better place (sticky or whatever) where projects can be listed with links to the threads, without the requirements of OBEX.
Just my 2 cents
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps:· SixBladeProp, TriBladeProp
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 3/5/2009 8:16:32 AM GMT
It's been my experience, however, that the path doesn't start with a demoboard (or spin studio, or protoboard), but with 'something that does something'. When I bought my ybox (in June!), I didn't know or care that a propeller was in it, or did I know who parallax was. I just wanted to have some fun. Then I downloaded the propeller manual PDF. Then I realized how much easier a book would be. Then I wanted to learn more about video... and so on. Now that I'm wrapped up in it, Brian's SpinStudio is perfect for me.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind if Parallax started selling more kits. In fact, it would likely help my business - a rising tide lifts all boats. So far, my typical customer (all 20 of them
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I think the ProtoBoard with USB is the best - it has connectivity to the PC (serial ports are dead in the water). With just 1 LED and no soldering iron, it is possible to flash that LED (Superbright LED in the resistor position for the mouse port to use the 10K onboard pullup). Once it works add a resistor and solder the LED in somewher with a link to an unused port pin, but this time reverse the LED and tie the resistor to ground (because it makes software easier to understand if a 1 turns the LED on).
Next, I would think soldering 4 resistors and an RCA cable - cut one end off and solder to the board to get TV (no need to use an RCA connector), and likely a cable will be in the household. Tell the user to use the yellow one to avoid confusion. This opens up a lot of experimentation using a TV.
The problem with the combined VGA and PS2 ports is the connector is specialised and expensive. A normal VGA connector can be soldered to the pcb but it covers the mouse and keyboard ports - I got mine from an old computer board - some footprints are slightly different, so remove the plastic guide that holds the pins allowing them to be relocated slightly - Also solder in with the VGA plug inserted because it needs to be on a slight angle or you won't be able to plug it in later. With 3 more resistors we have VGA. More experiments using VGA.
Alternately, solder in 2 x PS2 (MiniDin6) ports first (so you have them for later) - maybe you might be able to get these from an old computer. Then solder some wires onto the VGA to extend it's pins and tape the VGA to the top of the PS2 connectors with the VGA wire extesions placed into the pcb and solder these (careful not to overheat so as to melt the solder on the VGA connector. When it is done, carefully test - if it works (your wire joints are intact) carefully glue the VGA to the PS2 ports. Solder on the 3 additional resistors for the VGA. Now solder in 4 more resistors and you have Keyboard and Mouse.
Audio out is easy to add, once again using an RCA cable (red or white ends, or both for stereo). Alternately glue a stereo connector on the board upside down and wire.
Now its time to add the Spin Studio connectors and buy some boards, or robotics, or whatever
Ken - Maybe you could do a kit with the VGA resistors (3x470R), Keyboard and Mouse resistors (4x100R), TV (1x270R, 2x560R, 1x1K1) and a bright and pretty Blue (or Green/Yellow/Red) LED and resistor (1x LED and 1x1K or 1K1) and recommend it with the ProtoBoards (both USB and non-USB) or maybe just include it, or at least throw in a LED??? (OR even easier 10x100R + 10x470R + LED because we can probably use 470R//470R=235R[noparse][[/noparse]parallel], 100R+470R=570R, 100R+470R+470R=1K04R or 100R+100R+470R+470R=1K14R to get reasonable TV - OBC is this OK?). I know these can be bought at the local electronics store, but it's the out-of-the-box-fun. The problem I see with the current VGA kit is it is expensive because of the VGA/PS2 connector. Later it is an expensive add-on because of postage, but not so readily obtainable elsewhere (Digikey 999-H15FA-ND).
What do you think of this???
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps:· SixBladeProp, TriBladeProp
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
I like this idea myself. Granted, it requires yet another sticky, which Parallax doesn't seem to like. In order to keep it clean, you could have the moderators decide what gets added to the list. Or, does this double dip with the completed projects forum?
IMHO, I think kits are best left to non-Parallax folk. I would think it's too much logistics to handle for the return. But, a few kits, as suggested by cluso99, like TV, VGA, sound would be a good idea. They would really add value to any new Propeller user who used to solder, but hasn't in a long time, and would like to save some loot in these difficult times (aka, not able to afford a full out dev board. Maybe the bare PCB could be supplied with the kit?]
In general, though, I think Velleman has the kit thing covered pretty good. I've made a few myself and enjoyed the experience very much.
-Parsko
I like what Nick is doing. To show a little support, I purchased a set of goodies. Some of those came in handy last weekend too. I did a simple video modification to my old Atari VCS (2600), bringing it into at least the 90's video wise!
For the sake of discussion, I'm just gonna post up some thoughts that have been bouncing around my head for the last few months. If it doesn't all hang together, just consider it thought fodder and let this conversation carry on.
Watching OBC has made me want to build stuff in addition to programming. (YES OBC 6502 is a cooking, don't worry! I've just got to take a bit of time and learn more from what heater is doing, and you will see another release!) So it's time to tool up! I know what I want, and I'm sorting out what I need. Hate it when those are two different things...
Soldering Iron, Meter, Clamps, lens for small joints (getting older sucks), solder, bread board, project boards (and I like the ones Nick started with --they are a nice starting point), propeller, misc discrete components, and so on... It's starting to come together and I'm doing things now.
Having a goal that does something is really important. When I stocked up on a few things I know would be interesting, it sat there. Then one day, I needed to get a specific thing done, and *BAM*, that little inventory made sense. It was possible, and it was fun, and it happened in an afternoon. Hey, I nailed it too. Worked right the first time. Sweet! My point is that having the kits DO stuff is very, very important.
People learn by doing. I know I sure do. Following that line of reasoning then, doing lots of stuff means a lot more learning, and it kind of snowballs from there, ending with people designing their own projects, from their own goals. In a way, where I'm at right now is a mini cycle of that. Lots of learning, reading, tinkering, then a chosen goal, then application of what I knew so far. Really, the stuff I did as a kid just came back and was there for me last weekend. Back then I did lots of stuff, and learned lots of stuff. Connecting that together in the context of the here and now, today --means goal oriented kits, structured for incremental learning. There it is. Either that makes sense or it doesn't.
Videos. I like videos. Most people do. On the Internet today, videos are easy! Kits with videos would just rule, IMHO. Watch the video, read the detail, build it up, with the computer right there! Zoom, rewind, click the help me link, google, phone a friend on IM, e-mail, forum. That's nirvana for this stuff. In a way, looking back to my late high-school experiences, that is exactly what happened then. We worked in small groups, had a mentor, did simple things, built on them, got stuff done, learned a lot, and made phone calls when we were sunk, hit the books, etc... Anyway, simple videos are good. I don't think they need serious production values. Just show it, talk about it, be having fun with the video, so it's catchy, and done.
BTW: A video of somebody talking to their friend about it, really helps to capture something of the excitement and fun that the viewer can identify with. Old radio - TV trick. Use it.
Buzz: I like buzz too. Buzz is where one stumbles into a scene --and that's really a group of peers having at it, getting it done, and having a good time. There is a buzz on the forum here for sure. Most of us are here because of it.
There are other sources of Buzz out there. Make Blog, Instructables, Hack a Day, etc... Videos, pictures, tall tales, and other things associated with kits would help a lot here.
What you need to complete it. There are physical things, like gear, source components, directions, and levels of understanding. Then there is mentally what you need. Skills. Some of the things we like to do with the Propeller, and having to do with micros in general, exceed the base line what you need levels. Bean had the right idea with a core. The Protoboard is good too. Having a base that can be plugged into the computer really helps here. That seems to be the basic nut to crack.
How about a grab bag of pre-programmed EEPROMS? Build up the very basics as a kit, buttons, Prop, Video, Audio, and just plug them in? Instead of just getting to do one thing, they can do 10, or something? Is there some kind of price break on those things that make sense? Include a chip puller, and what's gonna happen is they are gonna pull it out, insert, and continue until they are thinking, "hey, it's worth getting that little prop-plug thingy!"
Stand alone kits. Ship a little business card sized CD, with the video to watch, kit info, programs (if they go there), and other related stories where people have either used that kit, or very similar ones to do fun stuff! Maybe, a video or two on tooling up.
On tooling up:
I listed the core stuff, we all know what that is. How about lots of tips for components and boards?
Grab bag components are a hell of a deal, and will break in that meter for sure! Maybe sell a bundle of some kind? Nick has those at good price points. A bigger set would be nice.
Scrounging! Gonna toss something! Wait! Take it apart instead! You never know what's in there, and before it goes to the recycling, pull a few goodies.
Kits that mod other kits! So, if there are companies that are producing really great kits, build off of those, or re-purpose them. I've done that with a few Ramsey kits I saw at the thrifty. They had a few of them there for a coupla bucks apiece. I didn't build any but one of them. (That was the little FM Stereo Xmitter. That thing is great.) They came with pots, connectors, battery clips, nicely arranged resistors and caps. Clearly getting those at a discount is a lucky score, but I did end up broadcasting some Propeller sounds. That made for a fun afternoon. That little kit is in the office now, broadcasting a nice shared music play list. People have tuned to it too. Sweet.
(and I'm quite sure the FCC has better things to do --it only goes 2-300 feet)
Swag: Part of the buzz, the scene, is the swag. How about some really great T-shirts!
"Yeah, I build stuff! Deal."
"Are YOU a Propeller Head?"
"To be 1 (propeller logo), ask one!"
"my other job is playing wanna be mad scientist"
"will geek for parts"
"there are always user servicable parts inside"
"Go ahead, ask me! (circuit diagram, or propeller logo)"
"I'm sorry, have you forgotten to play? Let me fix that."
"geek here to help"
"I (heart) blinkin lights and shiny things" or maybe just I like, instead of the heart. Girl geek shirts -vs- guy geek shirts.
"I fix stuff."
"Geek adept --first trials" (yeah, my avatar caption, but it's exactly where I'm at)
"+2 Nerd" (come on, a few of us played D&D way back when, right?)
"Is that broken? May I have it?"
"I'm a big kid now, so I get to play with the really cool toys!"
We all should start doing this kind of thing. It's catchy. There is cafe press...
So, buy a few kits, or maybe one's first kit, and score a cool shirt.
Finally, on the Atari forum I spend time on, it's catching there right now too. Decided to get after fixing the VCS. Posted up, got some help, others saw it, now several people are running working units. Now some are asking questions about mods and such. I posted that too. I think this works in a lot of places, if we've got a few willing to just build stuff, show the pictures, talk it up, have some fun, help.
Oh yeah, thrifting. Wonder if there isn't a way to kit off of that? I go to the really dirty store, where they just roll out the bins and everybody goes for it. The e-bay crowd is a bummer, but they are generally not interested in the stuff I am, so it kind of works. Lots to be had there, and you pay by the pound. Not suitable for the newbie geek, but it is a sort of rite of passage. Dig through the stuff, see something, tear it down, and build your own toy. Lots of fun, and it's cheap!
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
So, people want to build stuff, but need help. What if there was a discussion forum or a sub-forum somewhere. (I know this one is great) Here's the difference. Sell them a starter set. They supply the computer, and the starter kit has a few projects in it, soldering iron, web cam, usb, meter and other goodies. It's not cheap, but it's the base. On the forum area, they share stories, post up their projects, snap photos for help, chat on IRC or IM, and generally have a good time.
I'm headed this way now. Most of us are there. And we all know it kicks. Why not share that and make it dead simple to jump in and play? As an example, ship the education lab, web cam, register them a user name from the purchase info, put a few projects on video for them to watch, and tell the geek story. It's a nice introduction, and when they are there doing stuff, they are ready to just share it, learn from it, enjoy it, impress with it!
Put it all in a nice little box too. So when it's time to play, crack open the box, lay the stuff out, fire up the computer, and have at it. Then it's not really a solo affair, is it?
Kits done by self motivated people work. Kits done together with friends work better. That too is why we are here. We are all friends, and we love this stuff, why not make entering the club easy?
That's all the ideas I had.
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
I too am a kit builder as far back as Heathkit. I wish I could afford the Hero back then, but at least I did get to build a Stereo Amplifier after helping someone build a TV from the kit. Later I came across an unfinished Heathkit Scope and completed that and used it for a few years before something failed. While I have built kits from Grayhill, EKI and Velleman, these days I tend to make my own kits. This inherently happens because I prototype and built something and then use ExpressPCB to create the PCB board for it. It almost always fits on the Miniboard so I get three. While waiting for the boards to arrive I find myself ‘kitting’ for three units (or more). So, sometimes I will pass these kits off to my good friends to play with (build it yourself, of course).
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
I agree with this video thing. There are so many little actions which experienced people perform when making things, but which NEVER get put into print. For example, just recently I started making Molex connectors for headers. It's a simple technology, but if you've never done it and have never seen anyone do it, I don't think it's all that obvious. Turns out there are tons of ways to easily do it wrong, and of course I found out each and every one of them the hard way. A simple video would have helped a lot.
Generally speaking, as a clueless newbie to electronics, I think the biggest frustrations are connectors and enclosures. They seem to be disproportionately expensive and difficult to use. While it's cool to hook together all these chips and so forth and get something that works, it's a bit of an eyesore and "a short circuit waiting to happen" to have all these wires wigging out everywhichway. Creating a kit concept that addresses the connector issue and the enclosure issue would go a long way to adding to the "gee whiz" factor. Yet, I would also warn against making the final version of the kit too sleek and "antiseptic". We live in an age where all sorts of incredible capability is packaged in little boxes that we can't see into. So for newbies to build something only to end up with a result that competes visually, etc. with other such household gadgets would be counter productive. IMHO, what you want is something that can finally be packaged efficiently and safely, and yet still maintain the effect of "You built THAT all by yourself?" factor. Perhaps enclosures, etc. that worked really well but allowed people to still see inside. I notice people are more impressed by things I've made when they see the guts spread out all over the place, even though their wristwatch is ninety orders of magnitude more complex than what I've built. It's just the way our minds work, I guess. So I think good kits should work the psychological aspect of providing that sort of motivation, too.
Just my newbie 2 cents worth.
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Propeller Wiki: Share the coolness!
Chat in real time with other Propellerheads on IRC #propeller @ freenode.net
Safety Tip: Life is as good as YOU think it is!
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
Another topic, but I sometimes pick-up a Velleman / Ramsey kit for 'competitive research'. Last one I picked up was an aircraft radio receiver, $38.99 from fry's. Maybe it's just me, but building it was pure tedium. probably 30 or 40 parts, all hard to identify. The board was the 'plastic junk' board (WHY do people still sell those boards?). I'm pretty fast with a soldering iron, but the build time was at least 2 1/2 hours. I feel like a lot of those kits are stuck in a time before microcontrollers. That and they can trim a buck or two from the kit cost.
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Post Edited (Nick McClick) : 3/5/2009 7:09:32 PM GMT
I feel sorry for those lonely kits at Fry's (yes they're pretty bad). Though at Brokaw in San Jose, they recently got more shelf company with copper clad boards and Penguin bots. I still don't see any propellers there. What's up with that?
BTW: having young kids breathe those solder fumes may not be the best practice. Even with lead-free solder it's pretty noxious.
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--Steve
Hmm. Maybe its an addictive poison. Maybe thats why technicals tend to be backward socially.
@Doug:
Yes, on the video thing! That's the ticket! I'm learning (trial and error, mostly error) how to
do basic videos, dealing with sound levels, shadows, video editing software, etc.
I'd like to think I'm steadily improving here. (maybe)
I also love your idea of popping in a some pre-programmed EEPROMS to get people started.
Perhaps, FemtoBASIC color, and a couple games would be an inexpensive method of
getting to the fun.
@Nick, Brian & Bean:
You guys on really on the front line with products which open the door wider.
Parallax really has taken the "do no evil" in regard to micro vendors of compatible products.
One more reason I really admire Parallax. You have the advantage of being able to
move a little faster which is propelling us forward quickly! Keep it up!!
@Ken:
The more research I do on the creation of a "baby" PEkit starter, the more I've discovered
what a great value the current PEkit is. Trust me folks, I've done the math.
I'm still going to pursue this to see if I can come up with something to face off against the
cheap adrunio and picaxe kits. If it brings someone new in, all the better.
OBC
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