TriBlade Prop PCB: Uses 3 Propeller ICs for a Single Board Computer (SBC)
Cluso99
Posts: 18,069
Renamed thread from "MultiBladeProp - TriBladeProp (3 Prop PCB)" 22Mar2009
Renamed "TriBlade Prop" from "TriBladeProp" 20Jun2012
Each Prop circuit is called a "Blade".
I have been able to squeeze everything I wanted on my SixBladeProp into two identical TriBladeProp pcbs.
Put simply, the TriBladeProp is 3 Propeller circuits on one PCB with various options for SRAM, SPI Flash, microSD and USB (PropPlug equivalent), plus VGA, TV, Mouse and Keyboard connectors. The Propeller chips may communicate to each other by ultra-high speed serial.
Update 5 August 2009: Latest code posted here as follows...
Update 6 Mar 2009: Specifications (also attached to this post), schematics and BOMs are located at the end of this thread (Page 3 - about 4th March 2009)
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 8/5/2009 8:22:19 AM GMT
Renamed "TriBlade Prop" from "TriBladeProp" 20Jun2012
Each Prop circuit is called a "Blade".
I have been able to squeeze everything I wanted on my SixBladeProp into two identical TriBladeProp pcbs.
Put simply, the TriBladeProp is 3 Propeller circuits on one PCB with various options for SRAM, SPI Flash, microSD and USB (PropPlug equivalent), plus VGA, TV, Mouse and Keyboard connectors. The Propeller chips may communicate to each other by ultra-high speed serial.
Update 5 August 2009: Latest code posted here as follows...
- Blade #2 software for ZiCog v091 including all source and the binary (uses PropPlug equivconnected to PC and PropTerm)
- microSD files (part 1/2) CPM 2.2 & CPM3
- microSD files (part 2/2)
- posted on page 6 is draft assembly instructions including formating and copying the files to microSD card.
Update 6 Mar 2009: Specifications (also attached to this post), schematics and BOMs are located at the end of this thread (Page 3 - about 4th March 2009)
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 8/5/2009 8:22:19 AM GMT
Comments
I was a bit confused with the question of how many pcbs and what they contained after all the updates.
I prefer the P8X32 in groups of three. It makes for greater partitioning flexibility and ease of architectural understanding.
Six was too many for my poor head to grok simultaneously.
In my college days, I think it was referred to as a "tessellated architecture" or some such gibberish.
Great job, Cluso!
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/20/2009 5:46:15 AM GMT
What about a single place to plug in the prop-plug, and a hardware switch to select which blade to program? I think it would be a pain to have to move the plug around all the time, or to program the other propellers from a central propeller (at least for non-advanced users). Of course, it would only be for the group of three.
By the way, in a sense, this is the equivalent of the Ford Tri-Motor aircraft.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/20/2009 6:42:08 AM GMT
The circuit diagram is pretty much the same as I posted for the SixBladeProp, 1 prop each for sheet 1, 2 and 3.
All Blades (props) are seperate - no interconnections, except by links/wires. Blade 3 is designed to be the I/O prop, and perhaps the controller/loader of the other Blades (props). All I/O is brought out to a connector. Overlaying this connector is provision for 2 "Spin Studio" style connectors (for those that asked). Blade 2 is the workhorse and has provision for 1 or 2 512Kx8 SRAMs (Static RAMs) with direct pin access (no latches) for speed of access. 1 SRAM can be replaced (although I hope it may co-exist) with a microSD card and/or an SPI Flash 1-64Mbit. The Flash I recommend can be read 2 bits at a time !!! Due to lack of pins, the only interface to the other Blade(s)/Prop(s) will be via the·normal serial interface (P30 & P31), which can also be used to load the software. Blade 1 is intended to be the Terminal Prop. It has VGA or TV, plus mouse and keyboard. It also has provision for 1 512Kx8 SRAM using a 74HC573 latch to latch the upper A11-18 address pins. This allows 2048 byte blocks (pages) to be accessed without the need to update the latch, thereby speeding up access. The SRAM uses the mouse and keyboard pins. If you are using the TV option, then·they can be connected to the upper 4 (unused) VGA pins. If you are using the VGA, they will need to be wired to another prop (Blade 3) if you require them.
All Blades (Props) may have I2C Eeproms connected. All Blades (Props) may have 5.00MHz (or whatever) crystals connected. However, if you use all 3 Blades, I recommend that only Blade 3 have an I2C Eeprom and a crystal, and that it load the other Blades with code and generate the oscillator for them.
So, basically, you can have 1, 2 or 3 prop circuits running on this pcb, either seperate or linked - your choice. It is very flexible.
As soon as the pcb is away for manufacture, I will update the schematics.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
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JMH
Please tell me the exact URL of the
1. system block diagram
2. pcb artwork
3. pcb schematic
You have posted many links. I just want the link to each of these drawings alone.
Not something similar, or a english description. Just the exact drawings alone.
If you don't have accurate drawings, that is okay. Just please tell me yes or no.
Thanks.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/22/2009 1:46:45 AM GMT
bluemagic.biz/clusodocs/sixbladeprop_schematic.pdf
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Aka: CosmicBob
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JMH
Now, I expect to receive several boards, all identical to page 1 of the schematic.
What are pages 2 & 3 existing for?
I hope that you can see my frustration at identifying exactly what I am going to receive as physical circuit boards from cluso99.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/22/2009 2:24:52 AM GMT
I'm sure Ray will clarify your oder soon but if I understand it correct
A tribladeProp consists of:
Qty 1 of Blade #1 (marked as 1 & 4 in the schematic)
Qty 1 of Blade #2 (marked as 2 & 5 in the schematic)
Qty 1 of Blade #3 (marked as 3 & 6 in the schematic)
A 6 blade prop consists of:
Qty 2 of Blade #1 (marked as 1 & 4 in the schematic)
Qty 2 of Blade #2 (marked as 2 & 5 in the schematic)
Qty 2 of Blade #3 (marked as 3 & 6 in the schematic)
The descriptions for each are at the top of the thread and they are outlined in the schematics. In the schematic Blades 1 + 4 are the same. Blades 2 + 5 are the same. Blades 3 + 6 are the same.
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Aka: CosmicBob
Sorry, I am still doing the final pcb layout as I want to get that to production before I update the schematics (from the SixBlade version).
Once I have updated the schematics I will post them and email each of you who have emailed me. Sorry, it was quicker for me to just type what I have done in english.
Bob has described what is on the TriBladeProp fairly accurately.
I posted a photo of the SixBladeProp which I have just received back. I am not going to produce these as I can do better with the available space on the overall production panel size - pcbs are basically charged on panel size. The TriBladeProp is basically the SixBladeProp cut horizintally in half, but both halves are now identical because of the extra space, and a few additions as well.
My first software project will be to get Blade 1 running a VT100 Terminal (I think from OBC) on vga or tv, and Blade 2 running heaters Altair 8080 CP/M. Since I have a large SRAM on Blade 2 I want the emulation have a full 64KB RAM (including simulated ROM) plus a 360KB (or 420KB) RAM simulated Floppy Drive, plus microSD and/or 1MByte Flash. It should fly!!! Later, I will add Blade 3 for more I/O.
I am sure others, like baggers may find uses for the SRAM on Blade 1 for video, or the SRAM for C (ICCx) or LMM.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
I understand you are saying that I will receive multiple circuit boards, each one a 3-chip and not a six-chip solution?
This misunderstanding is because you keep referring to the number Six.
You have not sent anything by mail? Physical, carry on land, mail?
I just want to clear.
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JMH
James - nothing has been sent - the PCBs have not been sent to manufacture as I am still completing the layout. I am hoping to have them in my hands in 2 weeks, ready for shipping. In addition to new schematics, I also need to make a BOM (Bill of Materials) as a couple of components have changed since I specified the parts for the Six.
Possibly the confusion has been because I had a pair of SixBladeProp PCBs manufactured. During the manufacture of these I discovered what the actual manufacturers panel size was, and it allowed me to add a few features and make the Six in an identical set of three (Tri). The Tri can better utilise the panel size and are therefore cheaper than half a 6, and if you really want 6, just put 2 Tri's together (or more).
Almost all components can be obtained from 2 suppliers, Digikey and Future Electronics. The exceptions are TV (RCA), VGA, MiniDin6 (PS2) connectors and the Power connector. I am sure these are probably available from these 2 suppliers - I just have not had the time to check - anyone like to do this for me??? And while I am asking, I thought the DC connector on the Prop Proto Board was 2.5mm although I saw on another thread where they were suggesting 2.1mm was more common. In Australia, 2.5mm is more common and center positive is normal. I am using center positive. The pinout for 2.1 and 2.5 are identical, but I would prefer to recommend the more common one. Any ideas???
Postedit: Digikey: RCA Yellow CP-1403-ND, VGA 609-2802-ND, MiniDin6 CP-4060-ND, Power 2.5mm CP-202B-ND, mini USB-B WM17115-ND, microSD HR1941CT-ND (I am not·using microSD 3M5607CT-ND or mini USB-B H2961CT-ND as they are too difficult for inexperienced users to solder)
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/22/2009 9:55:41 AM GMT
I was very cranky the last two days. Physical pain does the to a person.
I am much better now.
My apologies...
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JMH
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
I think the protocol is to debug and design in this forum and when the design is fixed and the price arranged, move it over to the Sandbox.
Great work.
Rich
How do you move it to the sandbox once its complete? And should it go there or the completed projects? What is the difference? My perception of the sandbox was for other projects that were not propeller (or parallax) based, so I rarely read them.
My apologies if I have it wrong - this is the first forum I have used. Please point to where I can find out this info- it must be written somewhere I guess.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/23/2009 3:52:35 PM GMT
A single propeller didn't have all the I/O's I needed since I was using VGA output, mouse and keyboard input and needed to control several axis of motion, temperature, and a few other things. Two Propellers would have been enough, but I couldn't resist the chance to build a board I could call the "Tri-motor".
My original inter-prop communication scheme used a dedicated cog to output a sync pulse and then clocked a block of data shared by the three processors. ( each taking their turn to write updates to their current block if necessary ) It worked OK, but since i did it in Spin it was actually slower than doing the same thing using the standard serial package.
The board worked great, I liked having two great big ( 37 pin ) connectors on either en of the board. it let me bunch my power and user interface stuff down at one end and my machine control stuff back at the other.
I like Cluso99's layout, but if size is a consideration to anyone wanting to have a multi-prop controller this surface mount configuration makes a nice small package. I would consider having another batch of boards made for anyone interested.
Ken Bash
Missouri Automation LLC.
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" Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "
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Marvellous footprint! The surface mount makes all the difference. I believe Cluso99's plan is to eventually go surface mount.
KenBash, how many dollars for the PCB order, say, if you only get orders for a total of twenty?
This would give me a ballpark estimate of my wallet cost.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 2/23/2009 10:28:07 PM GMT
The sandbox is for things that don't fit in any other forum, which includes, but is not limited to, other microcontroller based projects (of which there are only a few).
I think this thread is fine for the propeller forum for the entire life of the project.
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JMH
That is absolutely beautiful. So, in addition to this little board... you also have little tubes filled with fluid and sensors to measure it all?
Rich
I don't think it is an either/or. It seems to me that listing it in the finished products section would be ok. The tradition seems to be to list the quasi-commercial stuff in the Sandbox... but you keep it here until you have your final tweeks and costs.
Rich
I notice you have a wire on the chip near the USB. Is this an FT232R chip and if so is the datasheet correct or do I need to tie another pin (for my pcb)? I was planning on not connecting pins such as DCD and DSR as the datasheet indicates they can be left floating.
Also I saw you do not overlap the mini USB over the pcb edge - the datasheet for the one I am using suggests 2mm over the pcb edge?
Just curious, as I want to make my pcb the best I can
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Sounds good! There are (as of today) 103 people working on the N8VEM project and lots of group experience there that ought to eventually be able to be ported over to a prop simulation. I like the inclusion of the ram on the board - it ought to add a lot of flexibility with code.
As for cost, If you're familiar with Express PCB, you'll recognize the footprint of the board as their standard size for their 3 boards for $51.00. Naturally, cheap SOB that I am, most of my designs tend to fit this format. I checked a similar design and the price for 20 boards was in the range of $11.00 each. Depending on what all you actually PUT on the board... 3 props, Usb, RS-232 chip, etc. component cost would probably be edging up in the $50-60 range. I have had similar boards assembled by Screaming Circuits and am very impressed with their work. Rjo asked about having sensors and tubes on-board, that's in another design( Yes, prop based ) I have that controls a cluster of instruments for life cycle testing of heart valves and stents. I LOVE the Propeller!
Cluso, you asked about my USB connector... frankly... I don't read as many spec sheets as I probably should... I haven't really USED the USB on this board and mainly put it there in anticipation of needing it for a future project. If someone is interested in using this board... Let's talk. I still have my layout around here somewhere.
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" Anything worth doing... is worth overdoing. "
··············································· ( R.A.H. )
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
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JMH