Propeller internet / computer questions

grasshopper · 2009-02-02 19:13

I was not sleeping last night like most nights, and began to get real excited about making a mini prop computer. We all have the keyboard, mouse, memory and video objects but my question is...

...Can it go on the internet. Removing the fancy graphics and other things that the internet has and networking with the prop I have seen, but what about wireless modules for internet access? Is this possiable?

Just a dream fellas but I may develop a board soon including a wireless module. Slap me back to reality if needed,,

heater · 2009-02-02 19:20

Hmm, any chance of implementing the SLIP protocol and plugging into a router that understands such things. BINGO your "on the internet". Never did get around to looking at how big/complex SLIP might be but there is an implementation in uIP that fits in very small microcontrolllers.

Could be quite cool for use with PropDOS or CP/M !

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For me, the past is not over yet.

Mike Green · 2009-02-02 19:39

Have you looked at the YBOX2? This is a Propeller box that has an Ethernet interface and can act as a simple webserver.

www.ladyada.net/make/ybox2/
www.deepdarc.com/ybox2/

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2009-02-02 21:03

I've been seriously considering implementing an idea that I did with the C64.
I created a special web browser that would surf special codes hidden inside
the remarks of a standard webpage. It'll probably never really catch on
on a big scale, but I think it would be cool to do graphics and sounds.

Restarting the Propeller based BBS is on my todo list, so I'll be doing
some propNIC stuff myself again soon.

When I was talking to Chip & Beau, I remarked how it seems like some of
us are stuck in a bit of a rut with the Propeller, we're doing old school
stuff with this modern chip, and Beau's remark was that we're just like a
bunch of 70's hippies. [noparse]:)[/noparse] Love it.

Go for it! some of us are right behind you!

OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS

heater · 2009-02-02 21:14

"a bunch of 70's hippies"

Oh wow, what's happening man? I see technicolour propellers everywhere, their, like, so cooool.

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For me, the past is not over yet.

grasshopper · 2009-02-02 21:39

@ Mike - nice links when i get home from work and have time to "Mellow out" - Ill read more of the data there.

I still think that a laptop wireless card or some IC that can covert it to a usable format would be "Far out".

@ Oldbitcollector please fill me in on some of the details that you mentioned. If a c64 is a Commodore 64 then I will be impressed. I still have my dot matrix Commodore printer in the foam never used.

Sorry for the cheesy hippie puns I had to do it.

Harrison. · 2009-02-02 22:02

I have been thinking about writing a simple prop web browser that uses a remote 'proxy' server to convert pages to text-based pages. Lynx can easily convert standard html to text, which could then be relayed to the propeller for displaying purposes.

So basically the data flow would be something like:

propeller device <-> internet <-> remote linux box <-> internet <-> website

The linux box's job is to grab the webpage you request and perform the html to text conversion. Then it simply sends that back to the propeller for displaying.

Believe it or not, this architecture isn't uncommon. A number of mobile browsers offload page rendering and compression to remote servers in order to speed up access. Opera Mini is a good example of a popular browser that uses this method.

grasshopper · 2009-02-02 23:21

Harrison,

Great idea but couldn't one just grab HTML from a web server and sort of display it on a propeller running a VGA object? If so, I could program a web browser in spin. I have made a few browsers in the past and figured it could be done with the propeller if it could get the HTML code from a server. I imagine there would be limits to how long the HTML code could be.

Just thinking out loud~

Harrison. · 2009-02-03 01:06

Sure. The ybox2 is an example of an application that uses HTTP to transport data. The ybox assumes that the page is just plain text so it prints the text directly to the screen.

The only issue is html is so complex that you would probably run out of memory before you could correctly render the page. Using lynx to render the page into plain text would allow you to save the memory for something else (like page scrolling, etc).

For testing purposes you could just store the html pages in a sd card (or in propeller ram). That would give you a good way to test the feasibility of writing a html renderer for the propeller.

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2009-02-03 01:15

First pop-up ad that appears on my Propeller, somebody looses a finger! [noparse]:)[/noparse]

Groovy,
OBC

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New to the Propeller?

Check out: Protoboard Introduction , Propeller Cookbook 1.4 & Software Index
Updates to the Cookbook are now posted to: Propeller.warrantyvoid.us
Got an SD card connected? - PropDOS

grasshopper · 2009-02-03 02:47

Harrison. said...
Sure. The ybox2 is an example of an application that uses HTTP to transport data. The ybox assumes that the page is just plain text so it prints the text directly to the screen.

The only issue is html is so complex that you would probably run out of memory before you could correctly render the page. Using lynx to render the page into plain text would allow you to save the memory for something else (like page scrolling, etc).

For testing purposes you could just store the html pages in a sd card (or in propeller ram). That would give you a good way to test the feasibility of writing a html renderer for the propeller.

I am not so sure about running out of memory. HTML is actually very simple and meant to be light - remember 26K dial up? Sure there is some features that would make it bulky but filtering through an HTML file as it comes in and only keeping stuff like background color and the test would make it possiable i think.

I like the idea of storing it on a SD card and need to get one running soon.

mctrivia · 2009-02-03 05:54

why not just make the web site think you are a cell phone. My web site aigamez.com and many others will automatically render the page differently for low bandwidth small screen layout. While you are at it check out my idea of an update utility to update the firmware via the internet. I have built the web side to support up to 32MB eeprom images.

http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=781233

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 02:26

On that subject - Just a simple test - Prop via serial to xport - Note: not using embedded COB [noparse][[/noparse]web] features - purely serial to ethernet - responding to a get with 'HTTP/1.1 200 OK' then sending simple html·data via
ser.str(string("*html code here*")) produces a simple 'no file' example displaying data over the internet ... also displaying the GET data and count via VGA Screen.. see attached images .. also note in the code the CR LF =>13,10 is leading the string as opposed to trailing - that is a specific requirement for my test app..

can be tested here 'Now Disconnected'
I will leave it up for a few hours and watch...

Rgds,
John Twomey

EDIT: Doh ! Don't know what I was doing with the images !

EDIT: Disconnected 22:30PM GMT·05/02/2008

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/5/2009 10:30:56 PM GMT

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 03:12

that is cool. will have to play with when I have more time after valentnes weekend. xport? is that the ENC28J60

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 03:19

No ... But the enc28j60 can do the same with Harrisons. code and some of your own.

The Lantronics XPort is a 3.3v Serial to ethernet device with loads of features .. Including embedded webpages etc ... I am Just using the serial to ethernet part - The propeller receives a serial GET command from a browser via the XPORT- and serially sends a 'HTTP/1.1 200 OK' - to tell your browser all is well and to expect data - delays momentarily and sends the HTML code .. through XPORT to you ! In fact I have is set now to respond the same to any request - it will ship out the same data ...

other options are ...
http://www.ladyada.net/make/ybox2/

I like this too ..
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/BASICStampModules/tabid/134/txtSearch/hydra/List/1/ProductID/540/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName%2cProductName

Rgds,
John Twomey

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/4/2009 3:41:33 AM GMT

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 03:39

wow the xport is expensive. 20 times the price of the enc28j60 though it does not require so many extra parts.

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 03:49

No other parts ... all there ... I also posted links to other options - a post or two ago.. worth a look .. The reason I use the XPORT and 'Digi Connect ME' is that 1) There is little code overhead (as you can see from example) 2)They are certified .. I use them in customer applications. 3) Nice security options 4)Possibility to embed a website using COB features - not that I do but the option is there 5) They have a few GPIO's

I was pretty excited with the ENC28J60 at first but the TCP/IP stack code overhead , and associated parts i.e MagJack,Crystal and passives, I/O pin requirements ,circuit design and Time (all of which have an associated cost) swiftly swayed me !

Regards,
John Twomey

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 2/4/2009 3:59:52 AM GMT

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:01

ya the xport would be great and I think I may use that in a project I have on the backburners. Does it have a valid mac or do you still have to buy one?

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 04:06

Yip Valid MAC ! While you are at it look at the 'Digi Connect Me' and the 'Digi Connect WiMe' - Fairly feature packed. The only down sode with these is the connector - not ideal for initial prototyping...

Regards,
John

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:16

nice wifi or wired completely interchangable. do you think it can be worked on easily with out development board? Have you worked with both? What are pros and cons. Interested in making a spin studio development board for these?

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 04:19

One thing to watch out for is the current requirements for some of these ... I am sure parts-man-73 could oblige ..

Regards,
John

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:26

Digi Connect Me. 3.3VDC @ 250 mA typical (825 mW)

That is not bad for a plug in device or even a POE(power over ethernet) device

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 04:31

mctrivia,
I should have specified .. The wireless modules are pretty power hungry .. Digi connect WiMe = 3.3VDC @ 400 mA - pretty heavy ..

Rgds,
John

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:34

wireless always does draw more. 400mA is nothing for a wall powered device. For battery power you will not be running to long unless using big batteries. Xbee i think is a lot less. but would require an adapter to ethernet on the other side.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:37

yep xbee is only 45 to 265mA depending on range

QuattroRS4 · 2009-02-04 04:38

mctrivia,
I am aware of that .. but you were referring to the Spinstudio .. I don't know what regs are on that .. also it depends what else is attached .. That said a quick mod would sort any issues ..

Regards,
John

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'Necessity is the mother of invention'

Those who can, do.Those who can’t, teach.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 04:42

Ah. I have modified my spin studio.(Now I can mesure current everyware)

If building a board for these we would have to use the 5V rale with a regulator on the adapter board. If I remember correctly the 5V regulator on the spin studio was a 1.5A module. I have heat sinks stuck to it so I can't read the part number.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 05:03

the digi package requires eagle 4.6 and I only have 4.15 first time I have seen that problem. The xport looks really simple to set up only 10 pin(GND, VCC, EXT-RESET, Data-out, Datain, RTS, DTR, CTS, Shield, Shield1) not sure what the last 5 are for.

mctrivia · 2009-02-04 05:54

i am guessing neither of these could act as a php server. how hard would be to setup a simple setup page like on a router where you can change all the settings. I am so ADD. You got me thinking about my smart house project and I have not even finished my ubber clock I am making for my fiancee.

Ariba · 2009-02-04 21:41

A chaeaper alternative to the XPORT may bee a WIZNET module:
www.ewiznet.com/

i.e. the WIZ812MJ for 16$

Andy

grasshopper · 2009-02-04 22:08

Ariba said...
A chaeaper alternative to the XPORT may bee a WIZNET module:
www.ewiznet.com/

i.e. the WIZ812MJ for 16$

Andy

Wow this is a great find. Now i can start working on a portable homemade laptop using the propeller.

Propeller internet / computer questions

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