Programming Basic Stamp chips?
po2le
Posts: 76
·BASIC Stamp 2 OEM Module as sold by Parallax (http://www.parallax.com/Store/ProductSearchResults/tabid/127/ProductID/21/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName)
Stated by Parallax
If··I used this kit, I should be able to program one microcontroller chip, exchange that programmed chip for another that is similar to the BS2 (16C57C) chip, then program the new chip· - am I correct ?
Or does the new chip have to be exactly identical to the 16C57C ?
Thank you
Patrick
Stated by Parallax
(microcontroller. It is programmed using our Windows Editor just like the BS2-IC module.
PBASIC interpreter and EEPROM are socketed to allow for replacement.)
PBASIC interpreter and EEPROM are socketed to allow for replacement.)
If··I used this kit, I should be able to program one microcontroller chip, exchange that programmed chip for another that is similar to the BS2 (16C57C) chip, then program the new chip· - am I correct ?
Or does the new chip have to be exactly identical to the 16C57C ?
Thank you
Patrick
Comments
So, you cannot read out the Parallax "PBasic" run-time environment.
Now, having said that, you CAN buy, from Parallax, 16C57's pre-programmed with the Parallax PBasic run-time environment, THEN use those chips in your own project. To complete making a BS2 out of this, you'll need an appropriately programmed EEPROM.
What you cannot do is get an "off-the-shelf" 16C57 PIC chip, and program it with the Parallax PBasic run-time environment yourself. That's Parallax's proprietary technology, and they do what they can to protect it. Also, the PBasic 'program' itself is not stored on the 16C57, it's stored (and read for execution) as "Pbasic Tokens" from a connected EEPROM.
So, to answer your question above -- "I should be able to program one microcontroller chip..." -- the answer is "No, you definitely can't do this".
There ARE other PIC suppliers -- MELabs, MicroChip, BasicMicro -- that might get you closer to your goal. But for onesy-twosy prototyping, nobody is as cost effective or as helpful as Parallax.
Can I program these chips for my own use ? (as long as the chips are pre-programmed by Parallax)
Are there other chips, besides the 16c57 chip, that can be programmed in·such an·OEM kit?
PBasic 'program' itself is not stored on the 16C57, it's stored (and read for execution) as "Pbasic Tokens" from a connected EEPROM.
What is a connected EEPROM?·
Does that mean the EEPROM in·a BS2 module?· In the chip itself?· Or in the connected PC?
I have a BS2 homework board with the PIC16C57C permanently installed.· I can program this ckt. to do various things, and I can use the kit in a remote location, after the programming, but I have to take the whole homework board with me to do that.· It will follow the most recent program that was loaded in.· Whenever I want to perform a certain task with the kit, I need to load a program then take the whole kit to·the remote·location to do the job.· If I want it to perform a different task, I need to bring the kit back to the PC and reload the kit with·the appropriate program.· Etc, etc, etc.
What I'm getting at is:··can I load programs to·more than one chip, with each doing different tasks in different locations, or·can I load a program to more than one chip to perform the same task, each at different locations?· Assuming that I obtain chips from Parralax that are·pre-programmed with the Parallax PBasic run-time environment, can I use the chips in a seperate circuit·to perform whatever simple program I load into it?· I wouldn't need the whole kit (BASIC Stamp 2 OEM Module)· only parts of it or similar, appropriate·parts.
On the other hand, the kit is about thirty bucks, so I guess that wouldn't be so bad.
Thanks again,
Patrick
You can accomplish what you want to do by creating a PBASIC program and uploading it to a complete BS2 OEM then removing
the EEPROM and replacing it with another identical EEPROM chip, then upload in a different PBASIC program. Then you should be
able to swap them out as desired to run whatever program you need at the time.
The actual 16C57 on the BS2 OEM does NOT contain the code you write. It contains a program to help it understand and
execute your code.
The PBASIC code you write is stored on the EEPROM chip.
I am a newbie and I can be completely wrong about this... its just how I think it works.
EDIT: The EEPROM is the smaller of the two socketed chips on a BS2 OEM. On a normal BS2 its soldered onto
the module and much smaller.
WARNING: Static will kill both your BS2 and your EEPROM, so if you do this you need to make sure you watch
out for static and keep your spare EEPROMs in an anti-static bag.
Post Edited (Ugha) : 12/10/2008 1:26:29 AM GMT
I also go along with this
Patrick
·EEPROM Chip from one board to another board
WARNING: Be very careful that you do not make an input an output from one board to another this a good way to fry some I/O pins on your Basic Stamp Chip
If you are going to use·or make a programing board do not hook any thing to the I/O pins up to Basic Stamp just
use as a programing board
Now if you are doing a pro to board this a good habit to get into is to use the same pin for both boards
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··Thanks for any·
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Sam
Post Edited (sam_sam_sam) : 12/10/2008 3:37:17 AM GMT
BASIC Stamp 2 OEM Module:
( http://www.parallax.com/Store/ProductSearchResults/tabid/127/ProductID/21/List/1/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName )
Parallax states:
(This is a fully-functional BASIC Stamp microcontroller. It is programmed using our Windows Editor just like the BS2-IC module.
PBASIC interpreter and EEPROM are socketed to allow for replacement.)
This BASIC Stamp 2 OEM Module is a kit which contains a BASIC Stamp 2 Interpreter Chip (the 16c57 chip) a 2KB I²C EEPROM chip, both of these chips are mounted (inserted) in sockets and can be removed and replaced. The kit also includes necessary other parts, including a board to mount everything on. With this kit, it appears that, after a downloading of a Pbasic pgm, I would have to remove both the 16c57 chip and the EEPROM chip in order to use these items elsewhere. Then replace both of them with new chips to be downloaded with another Pbasic task. Parallax sells the 16c57 interperter chip for $11.99, and the EEPROM chip for $1.10.
I was wondering if the replacement chips would necessarily have to be 16c57 ?
Patrick
again
I think the socket for the Interpreter chip has two reasonings, one, its dangerous to solder the IC directly to the board
due to overheating issues (and the BS2OEM is often assembled by us newbies so this is a valid issue) and two, sometimes
a stamp pin burns out due to incorrect wiring and it'd be easy to replace the interpreter chip to fix the whole BS2 unit.
I'm not 100% clear on what Sam_sam_sam said, I think he means that setting a pin to HIGH then shutting it down and
replacing it with an EEPROM chip that sets the stamp's pin to LOW would fry something.
That makes sense but I could have swore I read somewhere that the stamp resets all pins to INPUT upon bootup.
INPUT (also called floating) mostly protects the pin from HIGH and LOW signals as there is very little to no current flow.
Again, I'm a newbie so anything I say could be wrong. Use my advice at your own risk.
The Parallax supplied 16C57 is NOT an "off-the-shelf" blank 16C57, it's a Parallax Programmed 16C57, programmed to implement the BS2 run-time library.
So, if you replace that particular chip with a blank 16C57 (or any other PIC chip, for that matter) you're not going to HAVE the BS2 run-time library in that chip, and it's not going to work.
Yes, in the socketed OEM version, you COULD replace the Parallax programmed 16C57 with another Parallax programmed 16C57, and that would work. And yes, in the socketed OEM version, you could swap in and out matching EEPROM chips to get different programs to run -- again, the 'compiled' program resides IN THE EEPROM ONLY, but requires a Parallax programmed 16C57 to actually 'execute' the code.
You might want to use the OEM board to download your program to the EEPROM, then transfer the EEPROM to another board for final use. This other board would have a permanently mounted Parallax PIC16C57 (already with the Basic interpreter) installed. This would be for a situation where you don't want the finished product to be reprogrammable or field updatable.
The other thing that's sometimes done is to develop the product using the OEM board, then use a commercial EEPROM programmer to copy the downloaded EEPROM for use in the product (which already has a Parallax-programmed PIC16C57 mounted). Again, this precludes any field updating.
Another advantage to programming the EEPROM with your Pbasic program and resocketing it in the actual project board is that you can then leave off all the PC/Serial circuitry and parts on the project board (the DB9 and associated transistors, caps, resistors).
Another way to think about the Stamp setup -- the Stamp micro (a PIC or SX depending on the Stamp flavor) is kind of a "system program" that runs a "user program" -- the "system program" is burned by Parallax and can't be read, copied, reprogrammed etc, or you don't have a "Stamp". The "user" program is what you write in the Pbasic IDE and download to a Stamp -- that program is ONLY only the EEPROM chip.
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When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro. -- HST
1uffakind.com/robots/povBitMapBuilder.php
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That's my intention,· as Mike stated: This would be for a situation where you don't want the finished product to be reprogrammable or field updatable.
Once the chips have had the Pbasic downloaded to perform a specific task, I will use them in a specific location and no further programming will be necessary.
I understand,· use pre-programmed chips obtained from Parallax.·That's what I would do.·· Thanks for your advice.· I've learned a few things from it.
Thanks, Zoot, more understanding here.
Thanks, Ugha.· I'm also a newbie at microcontrollers
Patrick,· again.
just the EEPROM.
I could be wrong though.
Can any of you experts give a yay or nay on swapping only EEPROM to swap programs?
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Chris Savage
Parallax Engineering
I am basically trying to build a low powered, low cost version of the
BS2-IC module and was wondering whether you can give a list of the
components i can get from vendors in the UK like RS components or
FARNELL strictly. I pressume I cannot get a preprogrammed Basic
Interpreter chip from anywhere else other than parallax? is that the
case with the EEPROM and resonator aswell? Thanks
There's a link to a Components List (actually a Bill of Materials) on the Parallax webstore page for the BS2 OEM Kit. This has part numbers for several parts distributors. If you want UK-only vendors, you'll have to do the work yourself. There's enough information in the Bill of Materials to do that.
The pre-programmed PIC processor (Stamp Interpreter) is the only part that's unique to the BS2 and Parallax. All of the other parts are standard items.