Is anyone working on FSRW?
computer guy
Posts: 1,113
Hi there,
I need a version of FSRW (the sd card object) that supports long file names.
I don't have the smarts to do this myself so I was wondering if anyone is still developing it.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
I need a version of FSRW (the sd card object) that supports long file names.
I don't have the smarts to do this myself so I was wondering if anyone is still developing it.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
Comments
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I am 1011, so be surprised!
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
That would allow FSRW and others to use long filenames with the existing FAT format but would not give a PC OS automatic access to the same long filenames used, only the mapped short names. A specific application ( even a suitable disk/file driver ) could use the same trick to make long file names accessible. How useful that approach is depends upon application.
In 2004 the USPTO rejected Microsoft's FAT patents after a re-examination but then turned tail and upheld them in 2006. Germany held the patent(s) invalid in 2007. Last time I looked the EU had rejected the notion of software patents outright. I don't know of what else has happened since or elsewhere.
It would be interesting to know what an expert in patent law's opinion was on -
1) Developing and publishing long filename FAT code under a non-restrictive license in USA, Germany, Europe or elsewhere.
2) Use of such code from USA, Germany, Europe or elsewhere in the USA or elsewhere.
Fundamental to the issue seems to be where and when a breach of patent would occur. In Germany it would appear to be absolutely acceptable to develop, publish and use such code without fear of patent infringement. That would seem to extend across all EU members.
If the code can be developed and published in Germany, Europe or elsewhere where the patent is not valid, it then becomes a much simpler issue of whether that code can be published or made available in the USA or used in the USA.
Has anyone thought of simply writing to Microsoft to ask if they will permit the necessary code to be written ? Obviously best if someone who wasn't going to actually write the code asks !
At least with the US Patent system, it was held long ago that data structures and software are different animals, and the physical embodiment of data structures have always been protected under US Patent law. This permits things such as RAID formating, file systems and logging delta structures (used in revision control systems)·to be patented.
I don't want to get into a debate, but if you objectively look at the divide between EU and the US, one is left scratching thier head on how the EU derived thier interpretation. I can create a logic chip that takes A inputs to produce B outputs, and obtain a patent on it (Invention 1). I can make a programmable chip that has A inputs and B outputs and obtain a patent on it (Invention 2). But if I·take my Invention 2 and program it to behave identical to Invention 1,·the EU says this isn't patentable, huh? Now I understand thier rationale, and I'm not saying that I disagree with their intentions, but it just doesn't pass the objective legal analysis test.
Something which hasn't been tested yet of the EU system, but I expect it will (because there are enough devious people in the world) is using software means to replicate patented hardware to legally infringe a patent·. According to a strict interpretation of EU Patent laws, this isn't infringment (if something can't be patented, how could it possibly infringe on a patent) and is a huge loophole. Thats the thing with legal systems, unintented consequences lead to a patchwork of exceptional cases and leads to rule books that rival the NYC phone book in size (the US patent laws and associated legal interpretations of the laws now occupy ~ 2 NYC phone books worth of pages)
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 10/21/2008 5:57:54 PM GMT
it's always the same
give DETAILED description of what you want to do and I'm sure there
will be more than one solution to the problem
best regards
Stefan
Of course, someone then has to write the Propeller code to support EXT2. Here is the place to get started. Good luck!
-Phil
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'Just a few PropSTICK Kit bare PCBs left!
Post Edited (Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)) : 10/21/2008 6:23:53 PM GMT
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I am 1011, so be surprised!
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On the specific Microsoft FAT patent it is interesting that Germany rejected it as "not based on inventive activity" and decided there was prior art, whereas the USPTO decided there wasn't.
This leaves a very narrow path in which an examiner can reject an application, and frequently what happens is the examiner gets the applicant to remove the egregious "shoot for the moon" claims, but the applicant get the patent (just of a more limited scope than they were originally trying to obtain).
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
Post Edited (Paul Baker (Parallax)) : 10/21/2008 11:02:02 PM GMT
The legal system can be a pain at times.
Here is what I want to do.
I have the following files:
I want to be able to select the file based on its name.
This is difficult when all I see is.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
I have been reading up and it would appear that because I can have long file names on my SD card in Windows, the SD card must be using VFAT.
Therefore having a 8.3 name and LFN name contained in the files attributes.
The 8.3 name is stored in the usual place and the LFN is stored in another location that has to be read differently.
If the data is already contained in the attributes, it can't be hard to read it (right?).
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
Post Edited (computer guy) : 10/22/2008 7:16:11 AM GMT
The long file name is stored in previous directory entries as the file it refers to. Not at another arbitrary position. Example look at the image. The long file name is This_is_a_silly_long_name.text, and the short is: THIS_I~1.TEX.
I wanted to write an ext2 fs for the propeller. I did not yet find the time but I di put some thought into it: It will be a LMM-enabled driver. No spin beyond a simple wrapper.
Any more questions ? (here is how I created it under linux):
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ dd if=/dev/zero of=vfat.img bs=16777216 count=1
1+0 records in
1+0 records out
16777216 bytes (17 MB) copied, 0.104609 seconds, 160 MB/s
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ sudo mkfs.vfat ./vfat.img
Password:
mkfs.vfat 2.11 (12 Mar 2005)
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ sudo mount ./vfat.img /mnt -o loop
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ cd /mnt
ale@orgpc043:/mnt$ sudo touch This_is_a_silly_long_name.text
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ cd ~/tmp
ale@orgpc043:~/tmp$ sudo umount /mnt
Edit: *** The first char of every entry has a lower than 32 char indicating the order at which such entry should be read, and the last one an upper case letter (A 'C' in this case). Thos symbols and the distribution is there not to break old code. That well was actually not true, they just disabled writing directly to the disk (using int13). what a hack, a crappy hack. In the first days of winblows 95 the disk used to break quite a bit. well you know the rest.
Post Edited (Ale) : 10/22/2008 7:45:27 AM GMT
Is it possible to get the FSRW object to read this?
I am not very good at spin and know very little ASM.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
Arterial_Black.lead.easy.AGH
becomes something like
.\Arterial\Black\lead\easy.AGH
-Phil
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'Just a few PropSTICK Kit bare PCBs left!
The FSRW object only supports the root directory.
@Phil
I thought of this but I want to keep it as simple as possible.
I already have software for copying the files from PC to SD so I could always get that to write the index file.
If I was to read in the values from such an index file, could I store the information in a lookup table?
Therefore I could reference the long name and it would load the short name.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
Thank you
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
It seems that a very large number of companies class the FAT LFN patent as unenforcible, and, the fact that Microsoft has not gone after any of these high value targets with litigation seems to indicate that they feel the same.
elm-chan.org/fsw/ff/00index_e.html
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
@lonesock
Thank you. I found that site some time ago however the download links didn't work. They are working now and should prove to be useful.
@everyone
If there is anyone interested in working on Fat32 support. The community would appreciate it.
Thank you
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
Why? What advantage is FAT32 going to buy "The community" on the commonly available card sizes?
It just consumes more of the available card space and will cost slightly more ram at runtime.
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Cardinal Fang! Fetch the comfy chair.
BradC, you can stuff around with loading 100's of files with an identical name if you want but I'm sure most people in the community would want to be able to load one file and know they have the right one.
Short file names = hours of sorting through 100's of files.
Long file names = seconds to load the file you want.
I know what I would prefer.
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Building Blocks To The Propeller Chip A web site designed to help people who are new to the propeller chip.
Guitar Hero controller using the prop (WIP) --> HERE
If "most people in the community" had required LFN support, then I suspect someone would have written it by now. Try looking at the problem from another angle, or better still grab yourself the LFN specifications and do it [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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Cardinal Fang! Fetch the comfy chair.