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XMOS XC-1 is available today! — Parallax Forums

XMOS XC-1 is available today!

LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
edited 2008-10-13 13:27 in General Discussion
I just posted a msg on the XMOS Xlinkers forum asking when they would be "open for orders". Sam responded, saying that he has two big boxes of the things and they will definitely be available today.

Leon

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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

Comments

  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2008-10-10 11:30
    Perhaps we should just slide all this XMOS debate over to Xlinkers out of courtesy to Parallax, unless we come up with some symbiotic Prop/XMOS project ideas. I've just registered myself as "heater" over there. Is "Leon" still "Leon" there ?

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-10 12:09
    Yes, I'm there. User name leon_heller.

    The Propeller would make a useful I/O expander or peripheral processor for the XMOS chip, using SPI to communicate between them.

    They may be ordered now. I've just ordered mine and got the confirmation email.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/10/2008 12:27:46 PM GMT
  • heaterheater Posts: 3,370
    edited 2008-10-10 12:37
    Yep, I found you there already, just now.

    I'm not sure which chip would be peripheral to which [noparse]:)[/noparse] hence my use of the word "symbiotic". Interesting times.

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  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-10 13:14
    Yes, the XMOS could be used as a hyper-intelligent peripheral for the Propeller!

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
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  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-10 17:55
    Well, we will see us at xlinkers, I'm Ale500 there wink.gif

    btw: I just bought one of those XC-1 boards. I'm really exited !

    (Do not get envy here, I have bought 5 propellers, and one of my thesis experiments depends on 2 of them wink.gif
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-10 17:59
    I've got five Propeller chips as well, a proto board and a couple of home-made PCBs for the DIL Propeller. I can't make my own PCBs for the XMOS chips, of course.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • ColeyColey Posts: 1,113
    edited 2008-10-10 19:26
    Just ordered a couple of boards too, see if we can make an XMOS-GFX !!!!!

    Whatever we end doing it will involve a prop somewhere along the way.....

    I'm on there as coley too, see you over there tongue.gif

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  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2008-10-10 19:52
    I think that its product is powerful, but they have three problems for the masses or for me:

    - C is not a favorite language.
    - Its ProtoBoard is not very cheap.
    - They lack applications, demonstrations, etc.

    Also they lack tools free, although is appreciated a lot that include all the O.S.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-10 20:14
    C is the most popular language for embedded applications.

    $99 is very cheap for a 1600 MIPS dev kit!

    They have several code examples on the forum mand on the XMOS web site.

    The tools are free if used via the web site.

    The chip has only just become available.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2008-10-10 20:52
    Leon said...
    C is the most popular language for embedded applications.
    But it it is not for novices or people that prefer languages as Pascal.

    $99 is very cheap for a 1600 MIPS dev kit!
    It is not for Latin America. And the competence offers things seemed to better price.

    They have several code examples on the forum mand on the XMOS web site.
    Very basic things, but I am according to you: "The chip has only just become available."

    I them desire the best, is good the competence, favors the consumer.

    The tools are free if used via the web site.
    Internet is not free, is slow, does not have privacy, and is not transportable.

    Leon

    I expect that then they offer cheaper solutions, because i would like to test one. smile.gif
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-10 21:47
    They've promised me some sample chips including a new BGA144 by the end of the month. They will be bringing out a lower-cost kit for hobbyists early next year. My guess is that it will cost $49. The smaller chips will sell for $1 each, in quantity.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2008-10-11 01:10
    Leon said...
    They've promised me some sample chips including a new BGA144 by the end of the month.
    I saw, but is difficult to work with that chip without PCB.

    They will be bringing out a lower-cost kit for hobbyists early next year. My guess is that it will cost $49. The smaller chips will sell for $1 each, in quantity.
    They should imitate the success of other businesses and to offer a chip with a simple PCB (something super basic), and to sell to low price.
    Remember also the cost of shipment, a product of $49 easily becomes $75 or more.

    If the product is cheap the client can buy many and to reduce the price of shipment. For example, I have a lot of Propeller Protoboards of "Father's Day" (but I am not a father lol.gif ).
    Leon
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-11 10:23
    Chips like that can be used without a PCB. A loony I know used an FPGA in a BGA package that he'd bought cheap on Ebay by gluing it upside down and soldering thin wires to the balls!

    I've got a couple of commercial products in mind, and will be designing PCBs for them.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-11 11:34
    Leon, I hared of someone doing exactly that ! Very laborious but effective. The advantages of a BGA are lost though, but who cares.

    The dev tools can be downloaded and used without the internet connection. OTOH the web tools work quite fast.
  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2008-10-11 11:40
    Luis Digital said...
    I think that its product is powerful, but they have three problems for the masses or for me:

    - C is not a favorite language.
    - Its ProtoBoard is not very cheap.
    - They lack applications, demonstrations, etc.

    Also they lack tools free, although is appreciated a lot that include all the O.S.

    C is a commonly used industry standard language and programmers do not necessarily have to be highly proficient with C to use it.

    The end cost of the XC-1 ( inc S&H, tax ) in the UK is 134 USD, about the cost of three Propeller ProtoBoards. Not cheap, but not excessively expensive.

    Desktop tools are apparently available for free download by registered users. There appears to be no real limitations for commercial use of those tools in the EULA.

    http://forums.parallaxinc.com/designing.xmos.com/desktop-tools-download
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-11 11:46
    It's very cheap for 1600 MIPS!

    What I like about XMOS is that it is a very user-friendly company, as Inmos was. Parallax is similar in that respect. They have told me that they are very interested in the hobbyist and student markets, as they see them as important to their long-term objectives. Lots of interesting developments come about by getting low-cost kit into the hands of enthusiasts, as has happened with the Propeller.

    I've just downloaded the tools, and tried the XC compiler out on a simple LED flasher program. It compiled OK, but I won't be able to test it until I get my XC-1.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle

    Post Edited (Leon) : 10/11/2008 12:28:41 PM GMT
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-11 13:22
    Leon, I did not find out how to download to the XC-1, the document to "how to install USB drivers" seems to be locked requiring higher privileges :

    https://designing.xmos.com/support/xdk/usb-install-linux

    Have you any idea ? (The ide does not seem to allow download or I did not find the option)
  • Luis DigitalLuis Digital Posts: 371
    edited 2008-10-11 13:57
    Leon said...
    Chips like that can be used without a PCB. A loony I know used an FPGA in a BGA package that he'd bought cheap on Ebay by gluing it upside down and soldering thin wires to the balls!

    I've got a couple of commercial products in mind, and will be designing PCBs for them.

    Leon

    Good idea.
    Although is a little laborious. I have something seemed of reference.
    viachip.jpg
    516 x 283 - 37K
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-11 13:58
    I think it's a bug. I had a similar problem with the My Account link at the top of the page, they fixed it when I told them about it.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
    Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
  • AleAle Posts: 2,363
    edited 2008-10-13 05:12
    There are other functional links around. Thanks.

    I'm eager to get my hands into that dev kit. It can be booted from SPI, but it is not clear from the schematics (XC-1 and XC-G4) how there are several names for each pin. It will be a matter of testing. Now I have to find out how to program the SPI.
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,403
    edited 2008-10-13 05:19
    Hey guys,

    This seems like great support information to be more suitable on the XMOS forum. There's really nothing related to Parallax about the post, and since the thread isn't about interfacing the XMOS chips to the Propeller it's probably best suited on their forums. Heck, I even took a look at their forums and I see they've got enough activity to address these issues and questions with more interest.

    We want you to stay here, with us, but we prefer that this discussion to go to a home where it can live and be loved. Okay with everybody? Please understand I've got the highest threshold of acceptance for this kind of discussion at Parallax, and rarely make such a request.

    Thanks,

    Ken Gracey
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2008-10-13 05:54
    OK, Ken. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for your forbearance.

    Just out of curiosity, what do the people at Parallax think of the XMOS architecture? Although it looks as though it is intended for large manufacturers, lots of hobbyists are getting interested in it. The same thing happened with the Inmos transputer; although it was very expensive by todays standards (my modules started at £500 GBP each, back in 1984), several hobbyists bought them from me.

    Leon

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    Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
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  • hippyhippy Posts: 1,981
    edited 2008-10-13 13:27
    Leon : lots of hobbyists are getting interested in it

    Hobbyists get interested in all sorts of things but to what extent is really the measure of success in the hobby market. In my experience that comes down to cost and usability as well as hobbyists having a need for a particular solution.

    The great thing about the hobby market is that it's so diverse with lots of people wanting to try different things, some most suited to one product some to others, some are interested in software, some in hardware, some in systems, some in delivering applications, some more interested in theory or advancement of technology or knowledge.

    There's also a great diversity in hobbyist skills and knowledge. Some may feel out of their depth beyond breadboard and wire links others don't flinch at building their own multi-layer SMT PCB's. Some people may have large budgets for their hobby others may have more limited funds. Some want to build cool gizmo's, some want to design and create them.

    I would say there's a split between hobbyists; those who want to do something and are looking for a solution, and those who see a product and want to see what they can do with it, and hobbyists flit between the two as they wish to.

    What I like about the Propeller is that it is well positioned for a wide range of hobbyists to take advantage of no matter what their particular skills and interests are or may be in the future.
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