Propeller II chip compatibility to the present hydra and other propeller boards

Badger

Hello

will the propeller ii chip be able to be plugged into the prop i boards such as the hydra or some of the other boards that third party companies produce..

Badger

Roy Eltham

It's unlikely to have a 40pin DIP version, so it won't plug straight in.

However maybe a small adapter board could be made that would make it work?

I'd prefer to see a new Hydra 2 using the Prop 2 instead.

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Mike Green

The "bare" Prop II chip will not be able to be plugged into Prop I sockets. It will have a different number of pins, run off different voltages, etc.

There has been some discussion of how to make the chip available since, because of the greater number of pins, the package will be harder to work with. I'm certain there will be a Protoboard and Demo Board of some sort when the product is introduced. A plug-in module for breadboarding will be difficult because of the number of I/O pins involved. Perhaps something like the SpinStamp might be made with some of the I/O pins unconnected, but larger like the PropStick.

jaeg

If something like the SpinStamp was done they could put the extra I/Os in a bus on the top of the board so you can access them if they are needed. It wouldn't be very compact but it could work.

davidsaunders

For breadboarding, I would recommend a board with 64 pins (all IO) and separate wire connections for Vcc, and Vss. I say this because I often work with 64Pin DIPs with a 0.1 inch lead spacing (some 68000 versions), and they are as easy to work with on breadboard as the 40 pin DIPs. I would think that you could probably get away with up to a 100Pin DIP footprint 0.1 inch spacing board, though the largest 0.1 inch lead spacing DIP I ever used was 96 Pin, though these do work well for BreadBoard applications.

WBA Consulting

There has been a few mentions from people making an adapter board for the Prop2 that will give it Prop1 drop in status. (I am one of them). There are a lot of options for making a module for the Prop2 that will allow it to utilize a DIP40 socket. A few simple things need to be factored in of course, like the extra power supply (1.8v) and a way to access the extra I/O. The Prop2 Preliminary Feature page lists it as a 128 pin SMT package, but does not specify which one. There are a few posts linked on the Propeller 2 Wiki page that mention a 14mm TQFP as one option. Since a 14x14mm package fits within the width of a DIP40, a true DIP40 form factor Prop2 is completely feasable by using surface mount headers on the bottom side for the pins. There will be plenty of real estate for the needed components for the 1.8v rail and basic support components. The form factor design of my M44D40+ module (see my signature) is what you would sort of end up with. Adding some sort of piggyback daughter board, with fine pitch SMT connectors, would allow access to the additional I/O. I actually have most of a design laid out in DipTrace but won't touch it again until the package is solidified. A BGA package would be really nice as it would be much smaller and provide more compact designs.

Leon

BGA would probably require a PCB with six layers or more, making it rather expensive.

WBA Consulting

I would have to disagree based upon what I have on my production floor right now. Specifically, I build two different 4 layer boards with similar count BGAs. 6 and 8 layer boards are more common, but not always required, especially on something as simple as an adapter board. Only time will truly tell as the pin arrangement will play a big part as well. Easy thing is that for a Prop1 compatible Prop2, you can simply tie all of the VP pins to 3.3v.

Dr_Acula

I am sure once the Prop II actually ships we will very quickly have a plethora of boards. I've designed prop boards in one evening (coffee++, red wine--) and others can do this too, so once those chips reach our eager hands we will get working.

Personally, I'll probably wait till adapter boards come out (WBA's ideas sound great), then get cracking on an old-skool DIP board using someone else's adapter board. I'm sure it will be an exciting time with lots of great new designs.

Jorge P

Regarding a 40 pin adapter board, you can pull out a few more than 40 pins if you built in machine sockets like the ones used for the socketed crystal. I bought a bunch of the 40 pin snapable sip machine headers from digi-key and they take 22 gauge solid wire well. but you wouldnt even need them if you made space for the holes or even pads to tack on a few wires. I am sure the SMT headers and sockets would come in handy for pulling out even more pins without having to drill so many holes.

ericball

Badger wrote: »

Will the propeller ii chip be able to be plugged into the prop i boards such as the hydra or some of the other boards that third party companies produce..

Although it may be possible to create a 40 pin DIP carrier PCB, I suspect there will be enough differences at the software, and possibly hardware, level that other modifications will be required.

SONIC the Hedgehog

In terms of hardware I agree with the differences. But parallax has actually set aside commands to be used in the data sheet of the Prop1, so i think software would be the same.

Cluso99

Software will not be the same as it uses new registers and there are new instructions too, and some with changes. This may be minimal recompiling or it may not, depending on what is being done. This is an old thread. There is more recent info on one of the Prop II threads.