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Any experience with VRStamp? — Parallax Forums

Any experience with VRStamp?

GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
edited 2009-05-26 23:44 in General Discussion
I know this is not a Parallax product, and if Parallax had a Voice Recognition solution, I wouldnt discuss this here (I probably wouldnt even be looking at this). But since there isnt, here I am.

http://www.semiconductorstore.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3537#details

Ive been looking over it, it seems very complicated to me, and Im not even sure, but I think it is programmed in C ? Not to mention, from what Ive found, it takes several diffrent programs used together to make a single project. I dont know, this is just what I have gathered over the last few days.

Complexity aside, it looks like this is one HECK of a chip. Can do everything and anything, including lip synching, voice interactions, and even biometrics to a point. I dont know I would secure by gold debumes with it, but they claim it is very very accurate at detcting a specific person with a specific passphrase.

Does anyone have experience or insight on this? Can anyone reccomend another product that does VR (and preferbly speech generation as well)?

If anyone has a Mikro easy-VR stamp development·kit, after reading about thier downfalls, Id still be interested in getting one at a reasonable price, apparently they are not producing them right now, but from what I've read there is good reason for that.

Post Edited (GICU812) : 9/2/2008 6:55:54 PM GMT
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Comments

  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-02 07:28
    Let me be the first to say it, it is my thread afterall [noparse];)[/noparse]

    USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION!

    Okay, I did, found some information, but I can always use more. I guess I should describe what I want to do with it.

    I just need a system to pass signal to the Stamp, preferably on one pin via serial, but whatever, when key phrases are spoken, then the stamp can go from there with understanding and processing. I would also like to reply with voice prompts.

    It would be great if I could get something that could understand a series of commands, like "Set thermostat 75" and it would understand I wanted to set the thermostat, and the value shoud be 75 (or even just seven , five.)

    I havent found a whole lot of good responses about the mikro easy VR kit, but for $130 as opposed to $350 for the other kit, it would be much higher on my list. Given the little I want to do with it, Im thinking about just ordering a bare VRstamp.
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-02 16:29
    I have been using the VR Stamp for about 2 years now and I like it very much, in spite of the fact that you need to use four different applications to build a complete complex project.
    1. Sensory Quick T2SI Lite.
    2. Phyton IDE
    3. Sensory sound synthisizer
    4. Sensory Loader
    Once you get used to the steps for building a project, it becomes fairly easy. To do complex projects, it helps to know C program language, but I have been using the assempler examples/demos projects to build my projects from and have found that the assembly syntax is similar enough to Basic that I can modify the T2Si demo program to do everything I need it to do. I am a novice Basic programmer only.

    SPECIAL NOTE!! Do NOT buy the Mikro Easy-VR Stamp development kit. I didn't know that the Mikro kit has been discontinued, but I can understand why. It is not a complete system for developing a VR Stamp project. There have been many many complains about the Mikro system. The more expensive VR-Stamp Toolkit from Sensory is a complete system and most impotantly, It ships with two VR Stamps and the all important Quick T2SI Lite program and the Fuent Chip Technology example/demo projects. Mikro kit does not include these development tools and ships with only one VR Stamp.
    Without the Quick T2SI Lite program, you are NOT going to get any speech project going without extensive C programming skills, and I'm not even sure that will be enough to build a speech project. Save youself a lot of grief and buy the more expensive VR-Stamp Toolkit from Sensory (semiconductorstore.com)
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-02 18:01
    For building a simple speech recognition voice/sound response project, all you need is the Quick T2SI Lite program. Launch the Quick T2SI Lite program. Type in the words or phrases to be recognized and add wave files for voice/sound responses. Save the project and click on BUILD. A HEX file is created. launch the Sensory loader program and upload the HEX file to the VR Stamp. Your done.

    Basics for building a complex speaker independant voice recognition project for the VR Stamp.
    Launch Quick T2SI Lite program. Type in the words or phrases that you want to be recognized. Up to twenty words or phrases.
    Save the project and click on the BUILD button. Speech files will be created for use with the t2si sample project.
    Launch the speech synthesis program and add wave files as needed for voice/sound response to recognized words or phrases. Save and click on BUILD and the voice/sound file will be created for use in the t2si sample project.
    Launch the Phyton IDE and open the Fluent Chip t2si asample project. Add the created speech files and sound files to the sample program. Tweak the sample assembly project code to control I/O lines. There are 24 general purpose I/O lines. There are four pre-programmed I/O lines ready to invoke in the assemply code. (ie. RedOn, RedOff, GreenOn, GreenOff, etc). Save the project and click on BUILD. A HEX file is created for uploading to the VR Stamp.
    Launch the Sensory loader program and upload the HEX file to the VR Stamp. Your done.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-02 18:51
    How hard would it be to build my own programmer for it? Do I only need to hook up the serial lines? Ive been downloading some software off the Sensory website, I'll have to see if I can get everything I need.

    I have
    FluentChip 3.1.4
    QuickSynthesis 4
    Sensory Loader 4



    Post Edited (GICU812) : 9/2/2008 7:24:04 PM GMT
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-02 20:05
    You can download the programmer schematics from Sensory's web site. http://www.sensoryinc.com/support/docs/70-0069-C.pdf
    Fluent Chip, Quick Synthesis, and Sensory Loader are all free downloads, but the Quick T2SI Lite program that ships with the VR Stamp toolkit is not free and can not be obtained seperately. Quick T2SI Lite is an absolute must if you want to go beyond playing with the demos. MikroElektronika.com has a free VR Stamp Project-SE IDE download for the VR Stamp that is not security protected for unlimited use for C programming and compiling your complex projects. Quick T2SI Pro can be purchased seperately from Sensory for about $1000.00 Lots and lots of extras compared to Quick T2SI Lite.
    I think you actually get more bang for your bucks with the Sensory VR Stamp Toolkit for $350.00 rather than the MikroElektronika Easy-VR Stamp Development Kit for $130.00
    You get 2 VR Stamps instead of one and you get the much needed Quick T2SI Lite program. Or you can be penny wise and pound foolish!

    Post Edited (LilDi) : 9/2/2008 8:47:04 PM GMT
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-02 21:18
    All I really want to do is output some basic commands when specified words are spoken, and have some voice prompts. As for output, Id like it to send a serial signal to the stamp, or worst case, just use 4 pins or so to output a binary signal high low high high = function 7
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-02 22:26
    The VR Stamp is not targeted for the hobbiest, but rather for manufacturers system development. (for sale, like Furby, which uses the VR Stamp). Once you have the development tools and programmer board costs out of the way, you can develope a speech recognition product in mass at a very low cost. Sensory will provide you with the rsc4128 dice with your program burned into it for direct SMD placement on your product PCB for mass production. The initial cost to the hobbiest is unavoidable, and necessary to develope a voice recognition, speech/sound response project. The VR Stamp appeal to the hobbiest is the amazing and ingenius technology in speaker independant speech recognition. I for one am willing to pay the $350.00 for this product. I just finished designing and testing a variable power supply that changes voltage with speech commands, like "Set_Voltage". The VR says "Ready". I say "6 volts" and the VR says "OK, 6 volts"
    Bottom line. You need the Quick T2SI Lite program and programmer board. I have toyed with the idea of using a DTMF decoder chip like the M8870 to decode DTMF sound responses to a voice recognized word or phrase. The T2SI asample demo has built in DTMF tones to output in response to a recognized speech. That way you don't have to program I/O lines in response to a recognized sound. The M8870 decodes the DTMF tone and outputs one of sixteen I/O line bits.
    Please don't shoot the messenger of bad tidings.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-03 00:31
    Hmm.. So general consensius is its a great product, but not for the beginner and not priced for the individual project.

    So the only other main stream option for voice recognition and playback would be a PC running software?

    I really liked the option of biometrics with the VR stamp, so the system would only accept commands from myself, not so much for security, just for the cool factor.


    Im going to think out loud a little here, helps me to see the big picture when I lay things out.

    What Id like to do is integrate this into my home automation system, some sample scripts would be
    Each would be prefaced with a keyword, like "system" or "Hal" or the like, to activate the system.


    Me: "Tempature"
    System: "Seventy Five"

    Me: "Set thermostat seven two"
    S: "Confirmed"

    Me: "Heat on"
    S: "Confirmed"

    M: "Cool on"
    S: Confirmed

    M: "Fan on"
    S: "Confirmed"


    M: "Alarm Status"
    S: "Perimiter Alarm Set" or
    S: "System Armed" or
    S: "System Off"
    S: "Chime mode"
    S: "Fault", "Front door\Rear door\Garage door\rear perimiter\front perimiter\driveway\west perimiter"

    M: "Set alarm" "Perimiter \ On \ Off \ Chime"
    S: "Confirmed"

    I would also like it to "chime" perimiter alerts when triggered. so if someone breaches the perimiter system, it gently says this:

    S:"Front perimiter alert"
    S:"Rear perimiter alert"
    S:"Driveway perimiter alert"
    S:"West perimiter alert"

    Maybe toss in some novelty phrases
    "Hello", "goodbye"
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-03 06:53
    Is there anyway other than the TSII software to pre-program voice recognition commands?

    Post Edited (GICU812) : 9/3/2008 7:06:54 AM GMT
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-03 18:29
    ··· If you browse to the Fluent Chip c:\sensory\FC3_1_4\asample\t2si\t2si\ folder, you will see 5 files.
    comm_rscApp_sample.inc
    trig_rscApp_sample.inc
    comm_rscGram_sample.mco
    trig_rscgram_sample.mco
    rsc_sample.mco
    ···· These are the speech recognition files that list the words to be recognized by the program. By editing these files to list your own recognition words, I think you can bypass the Quick T2SI Lite program, which actually creates these files when you click on the BUILD button. The problem is however that the .mco files appear to be encrypted or I don't have the proper editor program to display and edit .mco files. If you can find an editor program for these .mco files this method should work.
    ···· You will then need to open the t2si.ide project with a compiler for the rsc4128 chip and compile the project, which creates a HEX file for uploading to the VR Stamp.
    I think Mikro Electronica has a free compiler for the VR Stamp you can download called RSC-4X mickroC.
    http://www.mikroe.com/en/download/

    If your Home Automation System is a good brand name product, querying the system for status info and the format of the response back must be in an industry standard format. I think you said there is a serial port on the system for that. I'll bet there is PC software for doing this·as well.
    The VR Stamp can be programmed to send/receive serial data in response to voice recognition, but your going to·need C or assembly program experience to edit the t2si sample programs.

    Let me know if you find a way to edit the .mco files and good luck·
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-03 19:47
    My Home automation System is Adam-brand (Thats me), its Stamp based.

    I think its worth a shot, but im anticipating failure, or at least limited function. I dont have the $$ for the Sensory Kit, so Im buying a used Easy VR Stamp kit from a forum member. I'll probably end up scaling back what I want to do, but we'll see.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-04 07:00
    Couldnt you just use the existing .mco files in any program you wanted? Granted, you would be limited to the vocabulary in them. Just wondering. Im sure I will understand better once I start working with this.
  • Greg NortonGreg Norton Posts: 70
    edited 2008-09-05 21:52
    LilDi -

    Is the software that you have limited by time or number of compilations?· I investigated this a while back and at the time they told me something like 45 days or x number of compilations.· If I remember correctly, they said I would have to upgrade to the pro version ($1000) to get the full version whether I wanted the extra features or not.· Is there a feature comparison between the two versions somewhere?

    Thanks for posting your experience with this.
    Greg
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-05 22:19
    Quick T2SI Lite is limited to 180 days or 50 builds, which ever comes first. Don't know any details about comparisons with the Pro version.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-06 02:30
    So is the copy that ships with the dev board a demo, freeware?
  • Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL)Bob Lawrence (VE1RLL) Posts: 1,720
    edited 2008-09-06 16:25
    I still have a Easy VR Stamp system but once they discontinued support for it it I put it away.

    You may find some info on Bruno's website that may help you.

    A Voice Controlled LED Light Show
    www.micro-examples.com/public/microex-navig/doc/088-vrstamp-voice-controlled-led-light-show

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Aka: CosmicBob
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-06 17:35
    By now it should be very clear. The Quick T2SI Lite ships with Sensory's VR Stamp Toolkit only. You can not obtain this software seperately. It runs for 180 days or 50 builds, which ever comes first, and then stops working. It is not freeware. You legally can not re-distribute the software to anyone, nor can you legally install it on another computer (hint, hint).
    If someone has a .mco file extension editor program that allows you to edit the .mco speech files, you could get by without the Quick T2SI Lite program, which actually creates the speech files for you. With a .mco editor, you could edit the speech files in the example programs with your own words or phrases to be recognized. Calling all .mco editors out there!! Where are you?

    VE1RLL: Sorry to hear you fell for the "Easy" in Easy VR Stamp Development Kit from Mikro Electronica. Find that .mco editor and you can dust it off and start some projects.

    Post Edited (LilDi) : 9/6/2008 5:55:39 PM GMT
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-06 18:39
    Well Im sitting here waiting for my used "spleazy VRstamp" kit to arrive in the mail. We'll see what can be done.

    When the Mikro editor says it will only work in small mode, 64k, what is that refering to, and what is the maximum capacity of the VR stamp in that respect?

    If I can get this working, thats a big if, I might see about offering programming services to the forum, nothing fancy, just you send me your output words, and I program it so you can train the input words, then when it recognizes word D it grounds pin 4 or something to that effect, signalling pin 14 would cause the VR stamp to say word Y.

    It wouldnt be using hardly any of the features of the VRStamp, but it would open the door to the Parallax users for some kind of voice recognition. Of course thats assuming I am understanding this right, but from what I have read \ reverse engineered, I think its pretty doable. It wouldnt be speaker independant, and you would have to train the module (possibly every time you turned it off), but it would take what is essentially impossible for most people to do, and make it so easy anyone can use it.

    If I could make a program that could record whatever you wanted, then play that back, that would be even better, just hook the chip up to a computer and play your out put words. Then Pin 1 would play word 1. Perhaps a 3032 battery or the like on board with your circuit to retain the memory, that would solve the re-training problem.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-06 18:40
    Well Im sitting here waiting for my used "spleazy VRstamp" kit to arrive in the mail. We'll see what can be done.

    When the Mikro editor says it will only work in small mode, 64k, what is that refering to, and what is the maximum capacity of the VR stamp in that respect?

    If I can get this working, thats a big if, I might see about offering programming services to the forum, nothing fancy, just you send me your output words, and I program it so you can train the input words, then when it recognizes word D it grounds pin 4 or something to that effect, signalling pin 14 would cause the VR stamp to say word Y.

    It wouldnt be using hardly any of the features of the VRStamp, but it would open the door to the Parallax users for some kind of voice recognition. Of course thats assuming I am understanding this right, but from what I have read \ reverse engineered, I think its pretty doable. It wouldnt be speaker independant, and you would have to train the module (possibly every time you turned it off), but it would take what is essentially impossible for most people to do, and make it so easy anyone can use it.

    If I could make a program that could record whatever you wanted, then play that back, that would be even better, just hook the chip up to a computer and play your out put words. Then Pin 1 would play word 1. Perhaps a 3032 battery or the like on board with your circuit to retain the memory, that would solve the re-training problem.
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-06 19:55
    The RSC4128 MPU is a general purpose processor and a very unique analog signal processor. This makes it a good choice for developing your own voice recognition platform indeed. I believe other members of this forum have developed VR with the Prop and even the BS2. You should start a new thread on this. This approach is way over my head.

    Both the Mikro Electronica and the Phyton complier limit the size of the VR project. I'm assuming thats so the program will fit in the rsc4128 memory space. I'll check it out later.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-06 22:29
    Well it came, looks like it doesnt work. I was told before it shipped it had gotten wet a little. I cleaned up the board before I powered it, and it did boot and play the demo sound. I was getting funky LED outputs, only a couple bright, a few at 2v and the rest off.

    So I pulled the VR chip to clean the socket and found there is more stuff on the back, so I cleaned that.

    Now I get nothing. I have 3.3v and ground where its supposed to be. I get no LED's. When I program the board, the LEDs come on, in the same odd pattern, all of p1.x are 2 volts, p0.2 is on, 0.7 is brighter than 1.x, but not as bright as 0.2, and all the rest are off.

    I get a beep when I start reading or writing the rom, but when I write a file and verify, I get an error that there are diffrences.

    Oh well, guess I need a new chip.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-06 22:31
    Ah Smile. I went to check semiconductor store.com , and they no longer list them for sale.

    Anyone know where to get a chip?
  • LilDiLilDi Posts: 229
    edited 2008-09-06 22:50
    Can still get it here.

    http://www.totalrobots.com/speech-sound-speech-rec-c-24_25.html


    Post Edited (LilDi) : 9/6/2008 10:55:24 PM GMT
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-07 04:18
    Anyplace in the US? I was really excited to get this and work with it, now im bummed.

    If anyone has a chip in the US, and can ship it out ASAP, I'll give you retail price plus shipping.
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2008-09-07 04:51
    US sales representatives for Sensory products... directly from the Sensory web site.

    http://www.sensoryinc.com/contact/us_sales.html

    Tim
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-07 05:17
    Well I think im getting runs of like 50 locations 00 when Im writing a blank file (all FF). So im wondering if there couldnt be a problem with the USB programmer.

    What program would I use to program this via the serial port? There is literally NOTHING useful documented in mikro's website, and the CD that ships with the kit basically just links you to the website.


    As for the sensory representatives, I'll certainly check, but on thier website it says they dont sell to the general public, and you must order from digikey or the semi place, both of which no longer list the VRstamp. They do have a site listed for europe that has the VR, but again I dont want to wait weeks for this.


    *EDIT*

    I guess I read wrong the first time, it does look like you can just order from Sensory. My offer still stands if anyone wants to unload·a chip they cant use, must be in US and able to ship Monday. Im not a very patient person, lol.

    Post Edited (GICU812) : 9/7/2008 5:27:18 AM GMT
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-07 07:15
    Okay I finally jerry rigged it to program off serial, no go. It will program the chip, but errors out on verification, usually within the first 100 bytes. I have checked the contents of the chip, and they look about right, but there is always characters wrong. I located the chip on the chip... lol, and it looks to be okay, but who knows.

    Bob, I sent you a PM about your kit.

    As for my previous size question, I think I have figured it out. The EEPROM is 128k, and the Mikro program is limiting you to 64k, why might you ask? So you have to buy thier $100 software of course. Somehow im sure you can get around the Mikro software though. Right now Id settle just for a 1k program that worked, but Im assuming from my strange LED problems, showing most of the pins are only putting out 2 volts instead of 3.3, im pretty sure my chip is toast.

    Anyone who has used this, what do the LEDs do while the chip is being programmed? It looks to me like it is trying to light all the LEDs, so im assuming that is what it does. I have no idea why it will only light 2 or 3, and dimly light the others. Im sure thats one of those magic smoke things.
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-08 02:53
    Okay I contacted digikey's tech support, they do carry them, I was unable to find them using any form of VR stamp in thier search field.

    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=VRMOD-ND

    they also carry the kit, FYI

    Ah Smile, they have a 5 week lead time. Great! Guh.

    Also, I like how they have "24x7x365" live support, except for saturday 6pm - sunday 6pm. I dont care that they are closed on the weekend, but that doesnt make it 24x7x365, thats 24x6x313...

    So im still looking

    Post Edited (GICU812) : 9/8/2008 3:08:27 AM GMT
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-13 23:06
    Well I finally recieved my new chip. I ordered it directly from sensory, it wasnt the easiest process. I sent an email with all my information, everything needed to order, and asked they call\email for the final CC information for confirmation. They replied with an orderform, insisting I fill it out and print it and sign it and send it back. It didnt even have the VRStamp on the form, so I .... six emails later it was ordered. That was okay enough. They said they are now offering direct order, so feel free to order from them, but I'll be using digikey if they have it in stock.

    Also, I repeatedly asked them to send it Priority Mail, 2 days and $4.80. Five days later it arrived via parcel post, the part that really made me chuckle was it cost $9.80. It would have cost them half as much to just ship priority, actually maybe less.

    While I was waiting, I checked the board very well, checked every part, signal, voltage, continuity, its all perfect.

    So I put in the new chip, it plays some program, its either spanish or italian, cant tell. When I use the Mikro programmer, the board goes into program mode, beeps, I get the CPU voltage on the screen, but it says the module cannot be found. If I use the Sensory programmer via serial, I put on the resistor to XM, and the board goes into program, and I reboot the board when it asks to do this, and it just sits there telling me to flip the switch and turn the power on.

    Ive tried all the baud rates, Ive put my old chip back in and it works fine, I dont get it.

    Ideas?
  • GICU812GICU812 Posts: 289
    edited 2008-09-14 03:27
    Ive been messing with it for the last 6 hours or so, I cant get anything. Scoping the TX\RX lines, it appears to handshake the same as the old chip, also the old chip works at any baud rate, so perhaps they auto detects.

    I think im going to go do something violent...
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